Why the bank didn't want to discuss mortgage contracts

ranaihrs

The point was to determine whether a mortgage contract was legal or not. The main issue, as I now see it, is that the mortgage may fail contract because the bank does not disclose the fact that the money you borrow is actually created when the agreement is signed. Lack of full disclosure will invalidate that. Unless, of course, your mortgage or loan contract actually does disclose this information - I cannot confirm this at this time as I do not have a mortgage myself.
The issues surrounding consideration seems to be a thorny one, and open to interpretation not only by the public, but it seems also by judges themselves. Our discussion clearly shows that it is likely that consideration is 'sufficient' (i.e, the bank promises to credit your account - which they do) in the context of the contract.

Hope this clarifies.

the_worm_that_turned

Very interesting thread and I am surprised at how badly it's received/understood.

I have asked my bank these exact questions (as is my right) about consideration and they have thus far failed to answer my questions. What they have admitted however is that the rights and obligations contained within my mortgage deed and/or my loan agreement arise from legislation comprising the Uniform Commercial Code of the USA. Please bear in mind that my house is in England and so am I and the bank lending the money.

Something else that the bank failed to disclose up front.

It is obvious that judges will not rule against banks on mortgages because if precedent was given that banks were acting illegally with regards to contracts (mortgages) there might be a big problem! With regards to the case that was brought up in this thread, the Supreme Court of the US determined that it could not be used as precedent because it was agreed upon by a JP and not a Judge, even though a Jury was present (and incidentally so was a Judge)!! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out why they really didn't allow it to be used as precedent. Interestingly, the JP involved was later found dead on a fishing trip, and apparently his body was full of poison! Don't mess with the bigger boys!

Think about this little conundrum though - you can only exchange (buy) your house when you have the cleared funds available - but you can only be given the cleared funds once you sign your house as security via Mortgage Deed. How can you provide a house as security if you don't own it. That is impossible!

Of course I'm just a troll though that hasn't done any research!!

Conrad

There's so many important causes one could throw this kind of energy into, like helping Bulgarian orphans, or working for WWF, tbh this sort of thang just seems so banal.

I don't know what kind of final outcome the OP expects, but having given 10 seconds consideration, the outcome he presumably had in mind would have lead to all Banks failing and the entire system going into the abyss taking us with it.

When I have the time I'll throw this kind of energy and attention into something that makes a difference to those suffering without shelter let alone a mortgage contract to pick over.

the_worm_that_turned

Conrad wrote: »

There's so many important causes one could throw this kind of energy into, like helping Bulgarian orphans, or working for WWF, tbh this sort of thang just seems so banal.

I don't know what kind of final outcome the OP expects, but having given 10 seconds consideration, the outcome he presumably had in mind would have lead to all Banks failing and the entire system going into the abyss taking us with it.

When I have the time I'll throw this kind of energy and attention into something that makes a difference to those suffering without shelter let alone a mortgage contract to pick over.

Aren't you contributing (expending energy) to a Money Saving website?

If banks weren't riding rough shod over us all (with billions of pounds of money secured against our enslavement via taxation given to them in a bailout) we would all have time to "save the world". Until we are saved from the slavery of debt then sadly we are trapped picking over contracts and looking at ways of saving money (hence the website)

Conrad

Let me take you back 200 years;
Only the landed gentry, the bloated priveledged and upper middle classes owned thier own homes.

A huge swell of discontentment grew and out of that sprang Building Societies - collective bodies that at last enabled ordinary folk to escape the insecurity of being a tenant. With ownership comes pride, dignity and a sense of purpose.


How would we do away with debt then? Do we all just get given a home? Have you been to Russia lately? Collectives will always fail because in the end everthing stagnates - if I'm given a homw, why bother to work at all, why bother to put myself out for a customer, why work those extra hours to ensure the customer gets thier plane on time / meal hot / package delivered / wall fixed?

the_worm_that_turned

Conrad wrote: »

Let me take you back 200 years;
Only the landed gentry, the bloated priveledged and upper middle classes owned thier own homes.

A huge swell of discontentment grew and out of that sprang Building Societies - collective bodies that at last enabled ordinary folk to escape the insecurity of being a tenant. With ownership comes pride, dignity and a sense of purpose.


How would we do away with debt then? Do we all just get given a home? Have you been to Russia lately? Collectives will always fail because in the end everthing stagnates - if I'm given a homw, why bother to work at all, why bother to put myself out for a customer, why work those extra hours to ensure the customer gets thier plane on time / meal hot / package delivered / wall fixed?

Allow me to bring you forward 200 years back to today, where only the landed gentry, the bloated privileged and upper middle classes own their own homes.

The rest of us borrow money from a fictional thing called a bank, who on the whole are owned and run by landed gentry, the bloated privileged and upper middle classes. We work our butts off to ensure we pay back this borrowed money plus any interest they intend to add to it for approximately 25 years.

They can do no wrong, get richer and fatter and we sweat to get by in fear of losing a job and the house that they so kindly provided us with hard earned cash (sorry magically produced via fractional reserve banking).

Yeah I guess you are right, sounds like a perfectly fair system.