Poor old Wilsons

Graham_Devon

Alan_M wrote: »

They also bought in such volume that they were commanding 30% to 40% discounts on off plan purchase prices by buying 10 or 20 units in one hit. Bear in mind these will have been discounts on 2004/05/06 prices or before......



We have a strange mentality towards success in this country, the guy who owns the business next door to me did very well for himself, he decided to buy himself a Bentley, paid for in full.....three months later He's had to sell it. He can't park it anywhere without it getting keyed, scratched and vandalised by what I can assume are jealous people who probably feel as He's earned a great deal of money he should give some to them. I see this attitude on this board daily.

Do you not see the problem here?

They wiped people off the housing market by buying up in such huge swathes.

It's a bit like a food crisis going on, and then someone who's succesfull buys up all the food thats left and sells it on to us all for double the price.

I doubt you would be saying the same thing then?

JayScottGreenspan

Alan_M wrote: »

I import granite from India (amongst other things) I sell it on to companies who fabricate and install it. I do this for no other reason than to distribute wealth from fitters/end users to me. Do you dislike me as a result?

What about if your transactions involved you outbidding the fitters / end users for the exising UK stock of granite. Would you be providing a service then?

Alan_M wrote: »

You blame people like the Wislons for rampant HPi but you're sadly misinformed. The Wilsons are the result of Hpi not the cause, the cause is availability of credit at zero/low risk assesment provided by banks and financial institutions which has lead to this entire and utter mess.

We are talking about people speculating on overpriced assets in the hope that they become even more overpriced. If they succeed they make money, but unfortunately a lot of other people get burned, and the whole economy gets thrown even more out of balance.
I would first blame the lack of regulation, second I would blame the idiotic lenders, but I would also reserve some blame for the speculators.
At best the Wilsons' were too stupid to realise the harm they were contributing to.

In an efficient housing market speculators would have been selling housing in 2007, not buying. In an efficent market people who speculate unwisely lose money. And an efficient market ultimately benefits everyone.

penguine

lesley1960 wrote: »

There are an awful lot of people on here who wish others misfortune , and appear to get great pleasure from it . That is bad when you wish it on people you know , but very odd when you dont know them

I don't think I wish anyone misfortune. However the Wilsons have been happy to appear in the media numerous times talking about their clever business model and perspicacity, seeming insensitive to the fact that property prices had risen to such an extent that many financially prudent and reasonably well-paid FTBers couldn't afford to buy a home. So it's interesting (to say the least) to watch their downfall, and I certainly don't feel any sympathy for them.

JayScottGreenspan

Graham_Devon wrote: »

It's a bit like a food crisis going on, and then someone who's succesfull buys up all the food thats left and sells it on to us all for double the price.

Exactly. I go to Tesco and buy all of the bread. Then I set up a stall outside selling bread at £10 a loaf.

What a great service!

Alan M seems to want to pretend that the UK housing market is an efficient market, and that the Wilsons' are ironing out pricing anomalies.

The UK housing market is one of the least efficient markets in existence. When prices go up, supply of credit goes up and demand goes up. When prices go down, supply of credit goes down and demand goes down. Any reaction in supply is slow and limited.

The government's failure to regulate the market is criminal. The spivs exacerbating it must at least be on a par with those who invest in tobacco or arms stocks.

Graham_Devon

JayScottGreenspan wrote: »

Exactly. I go to Tesco and buy all of the bread. Then I set up a stall outside selling bread at £10 a loaf.

What a great service!

Except in this case, Alan would probably say you were doing a service by paying whoever it is you need to pay to set up your stall. So it's all good!

Apart from families then need to go without bread.

I'm definately for rewarding being succesfull. I'm one of the few who say Tesco have worked well and listened to their customers, hence where they are today.

However, I would not be one for saying that Tesco should be able to take over all the other supermarkets and be the only people selling everything. They would have control and could charge what they wanted with little regulation and ultimately we would all suffer.

This, is what the Wilsons did, in Ashford.

LittleMissAspie

Alan_M wrote: »

When I watched a documentary on them they came across as rather prudent, in so much as they used almost every penny of the monthly rental income in capital repayments of the outstanding loans and drew a salary of £10 per month per property.

I'm sure their website said everything was interest-only .

Alan_M wrote: »

What is so wrong with saying look at how well I've done?

I thought bragging was seen as impolite.

Alan_M wrote: »

We have a strange mentality towards success in this country, the guy who owns the business next door to me did very well for himself, he decided to buy himself a Bentley, paid for in full.....three months later He's had to sell it. He can't park it anywhere without it getting keyed, scratched and vandalised by what I can assume are jealous people who probably feel as He's earned a great deal of money he should give some to them. I see this attitude on this board daily.

I agree, that's sad and there's no need for it.

Graham_Devon

LittleMissAspie wrote: »

I'm sure their website said everything was interest-only .

Every mortgage I think Mr Wilson said was Interest Only, that was part of the plan of keeping payments low.

Running_Horse

JayScottGreenspan wrote: »

It's also why I'd rather their tax bill was still in the hands of the young couples looking for somewhere reasonably priced to live in the Medway area.

There are lots of reasonably priced properties in Medway, it's just they are in areas people no longer want to live.

As for criticism, the Wilsons have not exactly hidden away from self-aggrandising publicity, so they are fair game.

MissMoneypenny

Alan_M wrote: »

When I watched a documentary on them they came across as rather prudent, in so much as they used almost every penny of the monthly rental income in capital repayments of the outstanding loans and drew a salary of £10 per month per property.

In that programme, Fergus also said that they relied on house price rises for their profit and how he wished he could let the tenant live there for nothing, but they needed them to pay their interest only mortgages.

Alan_M wrote: »

They provide homes for tennants who are free to live in their properties or not as wonderfully we live in a free market economy where these people have choice. If they were ripping tennants off they wouldn't have any tennants would they!

That may be the problem they have now. They have been featured about being bad landlords and now that there is a glut of properties for rent, the tenants can avoid them. Without tenants, how long can they service their mortgages? If just 10% of their properties stand empty, that is 90 mortgages the Wilson's have to pay out of their own pocket.

If they are trying to sell properties, then they will have to pay the mortgages on those empty properties until they sell them. Tenants don't have to let propspective buyers view plus they can make sure the buyer doesn't like the house.

If the Wilsons have fixed rate mortgages, they will have to wait until the end of the fix before they can sell, or pay penalties.

Looking on just rightmove and just 2 and 3 bedroom properties:-

• 219 properties in Ashford looking for tenants, with PropertyBee showing that the rents are still falling.

• 540 2 and 3 bedroom properties are for sale in Ashford with an upper asking price of £280,000. PropertyBee again showing those asking prices are falling.

Hawkinge - the village on the ourskirts of Folkestone which had a massive housing estate built a few years ago on the old airfield and which (according to what an estate agent told me 6 years ago) the Wilson's bought half of.

• 24 properties in Hawkinge looking for tenants.

• 68 2 and 3 bedroom properties are for sale in Ashford with an upper asking price of £280,000.

A friend who lives in Folkestone has today emailed me and spoken of the marked increase in redundancies in the area. Housing Benefit will not kick in right away and the Wilsons will still have to service their mortgages without the help of the tenants rent.

mewbie_2

Alan_M wrote: »

When I watched a documentary on them...

I wonder if we watched the same documentary? The one I saw showed them bullying a needy seller into accepting far less than market value for their house. It was a take it or leave it offer, made with a great deal of show for the camera. So egotistical and nasty people, who priced out FTB's through their actions, and couldn't even offer a decent rate to someone who was desperate.

Pride goes before a fall would seem to be the expression that fits this situation best.