Dont know what to do next! Help please!

mick_the_gas

Please excuse the spelling!
Hi I have never posted on here before so forgive me if this all wrong!
I have an old debt, about 10years, which was sold by my bank to credit security ltd, many years ago. I tried quite a few times to arrange a settlement figure with cls but they didnt want to play and kept telling me to talk to the bank that the origanal debt was with. I did this and they pfcourse told me it was out of there hands and I waould have to talk to cls! And on and on it went! I had been paying about £10 a month to cls but out of frustration I stopped doing this and only gave them £5 when they sent a angry letter! I have been doing this for about 2 years, so they havnt had a lot out of me, about £40 a year I should think.
I have never filled out a means form. Last year they ask me to pay them £5 a month until the debt was cleared. I called them and explained this would mean I would be debt free when I was 112 years old! would they consider a settlement. No came the reply!
After reading this forum I sent them a letter (rightly or wrongly?) as follows .
Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my account....ect ect , you know the one! and gave them 40 days to reply.
On day 40 I got a letter saying they couldnt supply me with the information relating to my account because it was to old, also it had never been in debate before so why was I picking on them now!! Now be a good boy and keep sending us money so there!! Or words to that effect!
So I sent them another letter titled FORMAL NOTICE-ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE, saying that under consumer credit act 1974 they could no longer ask me for money and had to clear my otherwise good name.
And here in, finally, lies my question,...
I have had no reply from cred sec, no request for further payment, no phone call saying wheres ya money, nothing.
But I cant believe that they will have cleared my name either, so the question is (cor I dont arf go on!!) What do I do now?
Sorry to ramble but they do make me cross!
Thanks in advance Mick.
( for background the origanal debt with the bank was a buisness loan for a company I started and run for about 2 years. but a serries of robberies which left me without any tools and after the second time any insurance (dont you just love insurance companies!) meant I had to shut the company, no money, no tools, and my understanding bank manager didnt understand any more!)

Tixy

Hi Mick and Welcome to DFW.
Not sure what to advise on this one but thought I'd BUMP it back to page 1 for someone else to see.

However I think other people on here will ask you:

How long since you sent the second letter and have not heard from them? Have you looked at your credit file recently? And if so what does it say in relation to this?

GeorgeUK

Right, it sounds as though you sent a subject access request. Did you include the £10 fee with this?
Who did you send it to?
The SAR falls under the Data Protection Act so not complying with this is very naughty and should be reported.

Has there been a period where you have made no payment towards the debt for 6 years and not acknowledged it in writing?
If so, then the debt may be statute barred.

What was the debt for?
Overdraft, loan, creditcard?

10past6

Did you make a CCA request INCLUDING the £1.00 fee?

Dear Sir/Madam

Re:− Account/Reference Number: XXXXXXXXX

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of our credit agreement on request.

I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

I understand a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

PRINT ONLY - DON'T SIGN

Regarding requesting charges & 40 days, this is known as a SAR, did you include the £10.00 fee, if no to either question, there under NO obligation and you're account is NOT in dispute until either they've cashed you fee, or expired the time limit, either way, you must include the fee first, the SAR includes a CCA request, so you don't have to send both letters:

Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request

Dear Sir/Madam

Account number: xxxxxxxx

Please send me the information which I am entitled to under section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998 in relation to detailed occurrences relating to the account Numbers xxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxx-x

The following is by no means an exhaustive list but in the main this is what I require.

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to ALL accounting history with your organisation.

Additionally, all records you hold on me relevant to the above accounts, including but not limited to:

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to the account.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notices that you may have sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted.

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of these accounts and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

9. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

10. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

11. A copy of all account statements for the duration of the agreement.

12. Please would you also advise me of the logic involved in any automated decisions taken by you about me pursuant to section 7(1) (d) of the Data Protection Act 1998.

13. A True copy of the consumer credit agreement section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act of 1974.

Any other information relating to the account.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, I shall be reclaiming them, and reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have found to be acceptable

mick_the_gas

Looks like I should have come on here before I started wizzing letters about!
The first letter I sent was:-

[FONT=&quot]Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my alleged debt since inception of the loan. This includes the term prior to your purchase of the alleged debt. As well as to supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I also require a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists. [FONT=&quot]You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I enclose the statutory fee of £5. You have 40 days in which to comply. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Yours faithfully[/FONT]

To which I have had no reply.

In response to an earlier post the origanal debt was a bank loan.
Thanks Mick

They replied after 40 days.
I dont have the reply letter with me, but it said they would try and find the details of my account but as it was a long time ago they may not have the information. They also said that there had been no dispute over the account since they took it on from the bank (they didnt appear to no which bank.)

I then sent them this letter:-
FORMAL NOTICE - ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE.






Dear Sir/Madam,

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On the 25/2/09 I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

On 27/2/09a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way.

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

In my letter of the 25/2/09 I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under Sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation.

These limits have expired.

As you are no doubt aware section 77-79 the Consumer Credit Act states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counter-claim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY
Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* You may not pass the account to a third party.
* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

Please supply me with a copy of your complaints procedure in writing as is required by the Financial Ombudsman.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

10past6

mick_the_gas wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]I enclose the statutory fee of £5. You have 40 days in which to comply[/FONT]

This does not make sense Mick, it's £10.00 for the information you were requesting.

mick_the_gas

oops!
Must have got a bit muddled !
What do you think I should do now? Re send with £10 or wait to see if I hear anything from them?

mick_the_gas

What i dont really understand is if they havnt got the information as it would seem that they havn't. What does this mean?
i find it hard to beleive that because they lots some paper work I no longer have to pay the debt?
Im not really trying to get out of paying it all, alougth I must say it would be nice;) But as I understand it they have bought the debt for probabky about 2% or something and what I wanted from them was a chance to negotiate a settlement. I thought sending of a few good sounding letters might help?!
How do I stand if they cant find the information?
Cheers Mick

10past6

mick_the_gas wrote: »

How do I stand if they cant find the information?

The accounts never going to be in dispute Mick until you pay the required fee, regardless of what tosh they send out.

Legally, there's a fee to be paid to obtain the informtion, until the CORRECT fee is paid they're not in dispute.

As far as they're concerned, you made a payment to your account.

mick_the_gas

Ok thanks for that I shall resend the first letter with the £10 fee and see what happens then!
Cheers Mick

10past6

mick_the_gas wrote: »

Ok thanks for that I shall resend the first letter with the £10 fee and see what happens then!

Mick, send the 2nd letter in post 4