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An interesting point ...
Merlinexcalibur
Posts: 1,699 Forumite
Which was raised in a thread last night about how, to some, it can appear users get ignored for whatever reason.
I think it also highlights another important thing I have noted: the emotional very often gets overlooked where debts are concerned. For example, just because someone is being 'jovial' on a forum doesn't mean they are, and they don't have very major worries. I tend to look for what they are not saying behind those words because what is missing also speaks volume. The fact whilst typing it they may be in so much emotional pain they find it very hard to express that and, because it's on an open forum, even harder. But to be honest they are reaching out to someone because, in the majority of cases, they have been denied finding help in the outside world. People don't get the help that is automatically there for others all the time.
Some have far too much on their plates; sadly, and I am just being realistic here, but advice/help is a very closed shop for those people. Purely because they cannot afford to go a solicitor (they may be on benefits; which I tend to note don't get as much help or so it seems or as many replies) and, let's also be honest here, but IS debt advice really that freely available in the outside world? Oh, yes, there is NDL, CCCS, but hang on. Sensibly, right now, those places are overloading with calls right now so people get frustrated with trying to get through. The most frustrating thing in life is knowing you have been there, done that and no one can really help you. CCCS, for example, can't put you into a DMP because you don't have £100 disposable income; needless to say, at least to me, that defeats the whole object of their core objectives eg to help those in need who have a debt problem. In a sense, it then becomes 'exclusive' because it turns away the thousands who need that help but can't get it. What happens to them? Where do they go? No one has an inbuilt mechanism to cope, know exactly what to do in a crisis do they? Until someone tells them about a place called MSE. It gives those people some hope, that there IS help available and it is available 24/7, when they are awake middle of the night being one.
I, for example, don't like to burden people with the very real issues I have. Yes, that's personal choice to make and it would take too long to explain it to you it takes my mind off those things helping other people. And as one who has not been able to find proper help in the outside world with debt (beyond what is available freely) and a whole variety of other things that have screwed up things like health treatment, I am so !!!!ed off with all that, how people can get treated irresponsibly often by those there to help you. Because in my experience, nothing is ever as easy as someone else makes it out to be. I can speak from experience on a lot of issues in that direction, simply because I have lived through them. Losing two parents in close proximity, all the crap that comes from family next whilst you are trying to grieve quite naturally, a raft of other things for the last 5/6 years that has been one thing after another just being a few of them. And six years later it hasn't stopped. But you get through it. But I see a terrific amount of people in so much pain, so much on their plate and they don't genuinely know what to do. Because it's new, so why should they automatically know. Why we have people who do. But, again, those are often closed off by people because of the anguish they can be put through just trying to get that help. It puts them off over time because of the mess, the feelings it instils, piling it all on top of the other things. It becomes a very nasty viscious circle. But I also offer help to anyone.
Fortunately, a while ago, I knew where to look, whom to go to. Well, I didn't but I knew I had to find it. With the debt advice but, then, found it wasn't as clear cut as presented. And that hope quickly diminished. Next I found out what I could online and did what I could in that direction because of that. Once I did, I relaxed a whole lot more knowing certain things.
Help is not a closed shop when I provide it for example. I may be direct, I may speak plainly. But, maybe because having lived through it, I might appreciate that sometimes there is only one way to approach something in and I like to encourage people to fight back against all the crap they are experiencing. Because it also provides them with the impetus, the strength to carry on, too. Because most of the time, that is what people who are at a very low ebb require. Yet, what I do see around me an awful lot daily in the outside world is people getting kicked when they need help not kicking further. That I will never understand that when people reach a very low point in their lives they not only become trapped by circumstance but also by the very real ideals of those who simply have a go because of where that low point has brought them in life. I listen to people's conversations whereever I am. And they all follow a very common theme: they are in need, they are being mucked about, no one is listening to them, no one is helping them. They are in an awful load of turmoil. Often totally unncessary turmoil as well. Often caused by someone not doing their job properly. Example: vital notes missing from my medical file going back over several years, somehow are no longer in that file. Only went and screwed up a very major, very important hospital appointment quite recently. I gave up trying to fight, to explain to the consultant because I was so tired of having to do it all the time. Because I have found, unfortunately, I am having to do it over and over again to the point now I don't bother telling anyone because you just simply get fed up of doing it when you know no one is listening. If they are, they have either misunderstood you or things like this happen. And this is what I see mostly in newer users to MSE. And it's often more the shock of experiencing that that is the worst. You don't expect it to happen. But obviously it does. In this scenario, I am not going to bother pursuing it, simply because I am too tired to, after several years of reaching it then having it screwed up because someone lost parts of my medical files. Not right is it? Really. But thousands experience it daily. Most of the time, I only wish I didn't relate to a lot I see here daily because I can appreciate the anguish they are going through, but because I have I do take notice knowing the whole time what it is like or can appreciate it. Even then, I think I would still notice anyway.
But the emotional side is often overlooked in debt. It really shouldn't be, because obviously they go hand in hand. Life changing events do affect people, even if they do not care to admit it openly.
And I am done talking. And probably making very little sense. All I want in life is to give other people some hope. If that is somehow erroneous of me then I apologize. I'd love to have a normal, everyday life but for me that is not a possibility. So I make the best of what there is in my life right now: the passion to help. That is my 'hope'. It's all I honestly have left anymore. So I try to make other people's lives better, even if it is the tiniest fraction, smallest sliver. Don't always get it right but no one is perfect, and no one can provide the most definitive help there is eg make all the problems go away, but they can be worked with. Working with them also heals those troubles to a certain degree. Mostly.
Not making much sense. Sorry. So will shut up now.
I think it also highlights another important thing I have noted: the emotional very often gets overlooked where debts are concerned. For example, just because someone is being 'jovial' on a forum doesn't mean they are, and they don't have very major worries. I tend to look for what they are not saying behind those words because what is missing also speaks volume. The fact whilst typing it they may be in so much emotional pain they find it very hard to express that and, because it's on an open forum, even harder. But to be honest they are reaching out to someone because, in the majority of cases, they have been denied finding help in the outside world. People don't get the help that is automatically there for others all the time.
Some have far too much on their plates; sadly, and I am just being realistic here, but advice/help is a very closed shop for those people. Purely because they cannot afford to go a solicitor (they may be on benefits; which I tend to note don't get as much help or so it seems or as many replies) and, let's also be honest here, but IS debt advice really that freely available in the outside world? Oh, yes, there is NDL, CCCS, but hang on. Sensibly, right now, those places are overloading with calls right now so people get frustrated with trying to get through. The most frustrating thing in life is knowing you have been there, done that and no one can really help you. CCCS, for example, can't put you into a DMP because you don't have £100 disposable income; needless to say, at least to me, that defeats the whole object of their core objectives eg to help those in need who have a debt problem. In a sense, it then becomes 'exclusive' because it turns away the thousands who need that help but can't get it. What happens to them? Where do they go? No one has an inbuilt mechanism to cope, know exactly what to do in a crisis do they? Until someone tells them about a place called MSE. It gives those people some hope, that there IS help available and it is available 24/7, when they are awake middle of the night being one.
I, for example, don't like to burden people with the very real issues I have. Yes, that's personal choice to make and it would take too long to explain it to you it takes my mind off those things helping other people. And as one who has not been able to find proper help in the outside world with debt (beyond what is available freely) and a whole variety of other things that have screwed up things like health treatment, I am so !!!!ed off with all that, how people can get treated irresponsibly often by those there to help you. Because in my experience, nothing is ever as easy as someone else makes it out to be. I can speak from experience on a lot of issues in that direction, simply because I have lived through them. Losing two parents in close proximity, all the crap that comes from family next whilst you are trying to grieve quite naturally, a raft of other things for the last 5/6 years that has been one thing after another just being a few of them. And six years later it hasn't stopped. But you get through it. But I see a terrific amount of people in so much pain, so much on their plate and they don't genuinely know what to do. Because it's new, so why should they automatically know. Why we have people who do. But, again, those are often closed off by people because of the anguish they can be put through just trying to get that help. It puts them off over time because of the mess, the feelings it instils, piling it all on top of the other things. It becomes a very nasty viscious circle. But I also offer help to anyone.
Fortunately, a while ago, I knew where to look, whom to go to. Well, I didn't but I knew I had to find it. With the debt advice but, then, found it wasn't as clear cut as presented. And that hope quickly diminished. Next I found out what I could online and did what I could in that direction because of that. Once I did, I relaxed a whole lot more knowing certain things.
Help is not a closed shop when I provide it for example. I may be direct, I may speak plainly. But, maybe because having lived through it, I might appreciate that sometimes there is only one way to approach something in and I like to encourage people to fight back against all the crap they are experiencing. Because it also provides them with the impetus, the strength to carry on, too. Because most of the time, that is what people who are at a very low ebb require. Yet, what I do see around me an awful lot daily in the outside world is people getting kicked when they need help not kicking further. That I will never understand that when people reach a very low point in their lives they not only become trapped by circumstance but also by the very real ideals of those who simply have a go because of where that low point has brought them in life. I listen to people's conversations whereever I am. And they all follow a very common theme: they are in need, they are being mucked about, no one is listening to them, no one is helping them. They are in an awful load of turmoil. Often totally unncessary turmoil as well. Often caused by someone not doing their job properly. Example: vital notes missing from my medical file going back over several years, somehow are no longer in that file. Only went and screwed up a very major, very important hospital appointment quite recently. I gave up trying to fight, to explain to the consultant because I was so tired of having to do it all the time. Because I have found, unfortunately, I am having to do it over and over again to the point now I don't bother telling anyone because you just simply get fed up of doing it when you know no one is listening. If they are, they have either misunderstood you or things like this happen. And this is what I see mostly in newer users to MSE. And it's often more the shock of experiencing that that is the worst. You don't expect it to happen. But obviously it does. In this scenario, I am not going to bother pursuing it, simply because I am too tired to, after several years of reaching it then having it screwed up because someone lost parts of my medical files. Not right is it? Really. But thousands experience it daily. Most of the time, I only wish I didn't relate to a lot I see here daily because I can appreciate the anguish they are going through, but because I have I do take notice knowing the whole time what it is like or can appreciate it. Even then, I think I would still notice anyway.
But the emotional side is often overlooked in debt. It really shouldn't be, because obviously they go hand in hand. Life changing events do affect people, even if they do not care to admit it openly.
And I am done talking. And probably making very little sense. All I want in life is to give other people some hope. If that is somehow erroneous of me then I apologize. I'd love to have a normal, everyday life but for me that is not a possibility. So I make the best of what there is in my life right now: the passion to help. That is my 'hope'. It's all I honestly have left anymore. So I try to make other people's lives better, even if it is the tiniest fraction, smallest sliver. Don't always get it right but no one is perfect, and no one can provide the most definitive help there is eg make all the problems go away, but they can be worked with. Working with them also heals those troubles to a certain degree. Mostly.
Not making much sense. Sorry. So will shut up now.
Any help, opinions, views I may hold those are my own. Respect them as you would expect the same in return. Offered freely, is gleaned from a lifetime of experiences, knowledge gaining. Passed on to benefit others. I may be direct, ask you questions but those are to help you. Up to you if you choose to take it. I won't judge you either way.
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Comments
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Hi
I actually agree with your post and can understand it!
Please do not take me wrong, but as a new person to these forums I have like many others spent a lot of time reading through the posts and diaries. I plucked up courage and posted a query, was warmly welcomed and got a few replies. However, there has been a feeling of I am not quite in the "right" (and I use this word as I do not know what else to use) place
I have questioned myself to see if it is how I phrase things or am I expecting too much - I have reached the conclussion that yes my circumstances are different, however several people have given very good information or gave me links, ideas on what I could do.
The emotional side is horrendous - no-one can know what another person is going through exactly - what they can and do is offer their "expertise" based on their own experience and life knowledge.
It is so stressful that when you are in the deep mist of this procedure your ability to think rationally goes out the window - I have gone through the everyone hates me, I have failed (again) I am such a bad person, etc scenarios so often.
Life is not always kind and for those of us who have had a harsh upbring or are facing additional life problems bankruptcy is a very dark hole.
But you do come through the other side(or so I am lead to believe from reading other posts)
Sorry this has turned into War & Peace and I only meant to acknowledge the OP comment.
For anyone reading - thanks to those that help
- take courage those who are just reading
- everyone be patient with those who are less clear in their thought process.
This board is invaluable - and the people who reply give the most important commodity a person can their time !0 -
That made a lot of sense..... to me anyway merlin. I can also relate to several of your points. Have been in similar situations....... but if you keep on long enough and not give up, someone does eventually hear you. Ok so it may take a while and yes you may get very despondant but if what you have to say is important enough to YOU then you will keep on till it gets heard.
I try to address the emotional side of bc as i was a nervous emotional wreck 18 mths ago...up to a point i still am. There are other ways of helping without the need to reply to a post. I tend to do a lot of PM if i feel the poster needs "private" help.So not only is there a lot of open support there is the "behind closed doors" help too.
We are not here for the glory(not aimed at anybody)of making ourselves feel good, we are here to help others feel good about themselves again,help them take control,help them get the info they need and to help them get a better life for themselves. Debt is/can be a very demoralising,degrading thing. A lot of posters take an age to pluck up the courage to make that first post. Others post and run. Some stay on. Some come here to help get them out of that pit of depression that debt and bc seem to create.
Whatever reason people come here for......they come and their needs are almost always met by the fantasic people on this forum who give their own free time help others.
Now who is not making sense:o
One more point before i hit the submit button.
Outbursts like the one seen yesterday serve no prupose here. All they result in doing is putting an atmosphere here, whereby those who would normally post, are wary of posting for fear of it being misconstrued.
DxFree impartial debt advice available from: National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000 | The Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS) - Tel: 0800 138 1111 | Find your local Citizens Advice Bureau
Laugh at yourself and others laugh with you.Laugh at others and you laugh alone. BSC No 107:D0 -
Please don't apologize Merlin your help & advice is so appreciatedMerlinexcalibur wrote: »
And I am done talking. And probably making very little sense. All I want in life is to give other people some hope. If that is somehow erroneous of me then I apologize. I'd love to have a normal, everyday life but for me that is not a possibility. So I make the best of what there is in my life right now: the passion to help. That is my 'hope'. It's all I honestly have left anymore. So I try to make other people's lives better, even if it is the tiniest fraction, smallest sliver. Don't always get it right but no one is perfect, and no one can provide the most definitive help there is eg make all the problems go away, but they can be worked with. Working with them also heals those troubles to a certain degree. Mostly.
I have turned to to CCCS & the Insolvency Service for help & info but the advice & support I receive here on this forum from people like yourself has been the best help of all - thankyou for being there for me
Flowerpot
xxxBR 2/6/2009 - AD 2/6/2010
BSC member 273
:A
still not smoking :A
:j
'Dreams are necessary to life'
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