Fear of tax, who else has stopped spending?

lostinrates

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Wasn't there a survey showing 80% in favour of the vrich paying more? Ultimately if you did very well out of the boom its only fair that you cough up to help pay for the bust. Why should the people on the bottom suffer by having their already meagre wages frozen and their services scrapped?

And we get this rubbish about the rich leaving every time tax increases are mentioned. Yes - if its a 90% supertax. But if we put top rate up to 50% would people on £80k a year really up and leave en masse? Did they all through the 70s and 80s when top rate was up there? As an argument its simply disconnected with common sense or the facts. A good right-whinge argument in other words.

I can only say that I know its been discussed about reorganising should it happen at a bove a certain level with DH's employers.

This is ofcourse so subjective...what sort of salary does 80k in London compare with in, say, Newcastle..sdomestically, or internationally, the comparison is also relevant, but would centre on other leading financial cities, where other offices can be developed to supercede or dominate over London offices.

I believe tax is not the only factor in decisions like this however, but the administration of country, and in our case, things like EU. e.g. wider (prophesised -not by me) implications of Lisbon..should Ireland relent and how much it costs to give employees in UK a lifestyle equivalent to those of similar rank in different countries where the same work can be done.

For example, though its not the case now, insurnce provision, AIUI could be covered pretty comprehencsively from a cheaper E country: I'm surprised it isn't yet.

e.g. One internationally respected City firm handles pretty much all its European litigation from one EU country. It could be pretty much any of the EU countries.

Graham_Devon

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Wasn't there a survey showing 80% in favour of the vrich paying more? Ultimately if you did very well out of the boom its only fair that you cough up to help pay for the bust. Why should the people on the bottom suffer by having their already meagre wages frozen and their services scrapped?

And we get this rubbish about the rich leaving every time tax increases are mentioned. Yes - if its a 90% supertax. But if we put top rate up to 50% would people on £80k a year really up and leave en masse? Did they all through the 70s and 80s when top rate was up there? As an argument its simply disconnected with common sense or the facts. A good right-whinge argument in other words.

I don't know about the survey in all honesty, so couldnt comment on that.

I wouldn't say that the people leaving is rubbish. We have had the biggest rise in companies moving to europe in the last decade than ever before, granted, this isn't solely because of income tax, but a rise is not going to help people stay here.

Just an example of a big celeb is Lewis Hamilton.

It's one the reasons we have so little manufacturing in this country. It is too expensive. Ford recently left because of it....just an example of a massive company leaving for pastures elsewhere to cut costs.

purch

But if we put top rate up to 50% would people on £80k a year really up and leave en masse?

Of course not.

A 50% Income Tax Rate for higher earners and non earned income, whilst being uncomfortable for a few is the price we need to pay.

The most important factor will be for the Government to make whatever changes they make to Tax, simple to understand, simple to administer and difficult to circumnavigate.

Unfortunately this is something all Governments find impossible to manage.

dervish

Graham_Devon wrote: »

It looks like labour is now going to take a socialist stance. Take from the rich to give to the poor.

If we read between the lines of the budget today, I expect to see a lot of redistribution of wealth. One labour MP was only talking about it yesterday on Newsnight saying it's the way forward.

So this may mean those on middle incomes could be left with nothing less to pay, but nothing more to pay. Those on low incomes pay less, and those on higher incomes (especially those over 100,000, who could be paying 60% in tax soon) will be paying a lot lot more.

This won't be done only through income tax, but also through pensions, asset ownership, large business's like Tescos etc being forced to put more into the community etc.

Unfortunately this will also mean those on low incomes and those on benefits have even less of a reason to go earn themselves, and those with the means to give more to the country, simply leave.

But I think personally, it's something labour will try and then pass on to the tories to sort out. There is a LOT of sentiment towards the rich paying more from core labour voters.

why should the poor pay less tax than the rest of us? They already contribute the least to the country as it is - now they are getting it easy! :mad:

Personally I have always believed the fairest tax system is a FLAT TAX. So that everyone reagrdless of wage pays the same proportion of their earnings in tax. Whyt should the successful and rich be penalised?

Graham_Devon

dervish wrote: »

why should the poor pay less tax than the rest of us? They already contribute the least to the country as it is - now they are getting it easy! :mad:

Personally I have always believed the fairest tax system is a FLAT TAX. So that everyone reagrdless of wage pays the same proportion of their earnings in tax. Whyt should the successful and rich be penalised?

Well I'm no socilaist.

But in terms of percentages, especially on council tax, VAT, and other taxes such as road tax etc, the lower earners DO pay more tax than the rich, based on your average purchases needed by most families.

dervish

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well I'm no socilaist.

But in terms of percentages, especially on council tax, VAT, and other taxes such as road tax etc, the lower earners DO pay more tax than the rich, based on your average purchases needed by most families.

I think a little of your wages paid at 40% tax would quickly cancel out any gains made on road tax and councial tax etc.

apt

Was it Goldman Sachs where the cleaners were paying a higher rate of tax than the partners?

lostinrates

apt wrote: »

Was it Goldman Sachs where the cleaners were paying a higher rate of tax than the partners?

There are a raft pf people below patners who are high earners but not, IMO, obcene ones.

themanbearpig

£8,000 for every person in the UK just to maintain the debt's interest
£32,000 for every person to clear the debt. Average family owes £128,000 to the government.

Imagine if every person got a bill for £32,000 through the post... That's essentially what is going to happen after the election.

Rochdale_Pioneers

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I wouldn't say that the people leaving is rubbish. We have had the biggest rise in companies moving to europe in the last decade than ever before, granted, this isn't solely because of income tax, but a rise is not going to help people stay here.

Just an example of a big celeb is Lewis Hamilton.

It's one the reasons we have so little manufacturing in this country. It is too expensive. Ford recently left because of it....just an example of a massive company leaving for pastures elsewhere to cut costs.

I know that a lot of companies have gone abroad - just as a lot have come here. We've also had companies "going abroad" to dodge tax without a single job actually leaving the UK (their "head office" abroad mysteriously not needing staff). I'd dispute that means their well-paid workers all going with them. Yes, celebs and the uber-rich can and do move abroad - and always have.

What I refer to are the majority of people on the higher rate tax band. They are like the rest of us UK citizens with families and lives all here. They aren't going to up sticks and leave all that behind for the sake of paying a bit more tax on earnings above £40k or so. They didn't when top rate was 50% in the 80s and they won't do if it goes back to 50%.

Anyway, I think the days of low tax escapes for the wealthy are numbered. Tax havens are going to have to do some serious reforms, and countries that had lower taxes than here (not our main competitors in Europe where taxes are higher) are facing similar problems as we have.