Another one in ten

dylansmum

Just to add to the mix of stuff about unemployment and pay cuts/rises:

It is likely that one in ten uni applicants will not get a place this year as government has capped undergraduate places significantly - unis who over-recruit can be charged 10K per students for doing so. (See Times). Department for Innovation (!) say that as uni is 'competitive' then not all 'can get in' (Hello - how many have been TOLD to apply!). So another 200 thou looking for work.

Meanwhile, vice chancellors had an avergage pay increase of 9% (see Times Higher). This year seven have agreed to a pay freeze, but the others have not. Some got 25% increases in 2007-8!

Yet Liverpoo uni are axing 8 departs, Lond Met axing 500 jobs due to senior managment 'incompetence'' (cough, overclaiming on students numbers)

Sussex are shrinking linguistics/languages - in spite of many applicants.

We've seen science trashed already.

Academic staff likely to have a pay freeze in a bid to save jobs.

Government want to put fees up for students.

Sense?

Rochdale_Pioneers

Changes are needed to HE:

1. Scrap tuition fees before they get out of hand. £3k a year would have stopped me going to uni at all. Some Vice Chancellors now see ££££ signs in their eyes and want to double or triple this. If Graduates are a national asset then the government should fund their education. As they are to earn more later with their qualification then raise the money from taxation
2. An end to pointless expansion of degrees. We have serious subjects under threat as their departments are shrunk or closed, whilst social science nonsense degrees increase.
3. A vast expansion in apprenticeships. Lets train people to do skilled jobs.

abaxas

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Changes are needed to HE:

1. Scrap tuition fees before they get out of hand. £3k a year would have stopped me going to uni at all. Some Vice Chancellors now see ££££ signs in their eyes and want to double or triple this. If Graduates are a national asset then the government should fund their education. As they are to earn more later with their qualification then raise the money from taxation
2. An end to pointless expansion of degrees. We have serious subjects under threat as their departments are shrunk or closed, whilst social science nonsense degrees increase.
3. A vast expansion in apprenticeships. Lets train people to do skilled jobs.

100% agreed, give people education so they can improve their lives and hence society in general. NOT bits of paper a a 3 year drinking binge.

StevieJ

Totally agree.

purch

4. Make all the Polytechnics and Technical Colleges that re-named themselves as Universities and started handing out c^*p degrees go back to being what they are !!!!

Rochdale_Pioneers

purch wrote: »

4. Make all the Polytechnics and Technical Colleges that re-named themselves as Universities and started handing out c^*p degrees go back to being what they are !!!!

Technical colleges maybe. The former polys are now proper universities offering a lot of proper degrees in serious subjects. It would be madness to scrap them.

mrposhman

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Technical colleges maybe. The former polys are now proper universities offering a lot of proper degrees in serious subjects. It would be madness to scrap them.

Agreed. I went to an ex Poly and our main degree subjects were based around

- Medicine
- Sports subjects
- Accounting
- Law
- IT

Now I don't know about you but they sound like proper subjects to me and far more important to study for your future career than say English or History at Cambridge to be honest.

stephen163

Why would £3k a year tuition fees stop you going to uni? Why do people moan that they 'can't afford' to pay back their student loan when it is interest free and proportionate to the amount of money you earn?

I know it would be nice if University was free, but it's just not sustainable and we will get left behind as a country if it's not properly funded. I don't understand why the taxpayer on £13k a year should subsidise a future Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer or Scientist. It might be good for the country to encourage more people to uni by making it free, but the selfish ambition of the individual and the incentive of greater future earnings is symbiotic with the future success of the country too.

lostinrates

mrposhman wrote: »

Agreed. I went to an ex Poly and our main degree subjects were based around

- Medicine
- Sports subjects
- Accounting
- Law
- IT

Now I don't know about you but they sound like proper subjects to me and far more important to study for your future career than say English or History at Cambridge to be honest.

DH did his law conversion at an ex poly. His undergrad degree was at an Oxford college, and his post graduate at a place of simialar standing. Of all, he found the standard of submission of work demandest was at the former poly. I chose a former polky for my undergrad degree based on the rting of the scientific content of the course. It was, at the time, ranked highest. Sadly the quality of that course, IMO, plummeted with a massive increase of intake (numbers on my course increased about 400%).

In retrospect, I wish I'd chosen quality of institution over quality of course for an undergrad degree.

re fees: I think the fee in the first fee year, when I went, was £1000k. even at £3k its a pittance compared to the cost of the provision of that education. Earning more than that working part time (in a decent economy) is by no means impossible. I notice those of us who worked on my course were those who really appreciated what we were receiving!

Rochdale_Pioneers

stephen163 wrote: »

Why would £3k a year tuition fees stop you going to uni? Why do people moan that they 'can't afford' to pay back their student loan when it is interest free and proportionate to the amount of money you earn?

Think about the average income graduates earn in the 5 years after leaving Uni, then think about the size of repayments from Tuition Fees and student loans. Interest free and proportionate are irrelevant when repaying the thing will keep you broke into your 30s.

abaxas

purch wrote: »

4. Make all the Polytechnics and Technical Colleges that re-named themselves as Universities and started handing out c^*p degrees go back to being what they are !!!!

Having worked for both red brick and ex-poly universities.

You'll probably find the quality if education is now higher at the ex polys.