Advice re dismissal please

CFC

His sick record is not bad given his condition.

An employee can be dismissed, even when they fall under the DDA, on the grounds of unsustainability of absence. However, looking at the size of the employer and the length of absence, this would be a most unsafe dismissal in my opinion.

I think the stage 2 outcome (if a written warning) should have been appealed at the time, given that a stage one disciplinary outcome was 'no action'. The absences dealt with at the stage one meeting should not have been taken into account in a stage 2 disciplinary and it looks to me as if they may have been.

It looks to me as if the HR advisor has misread the dr's letter or even potentially confused him with another person. It is clear that the underlying condition is referred to.

Attend the disciplinary, take a trusted colleague, and point out the contradiction between the letter and report.

LittleVoice

Did they say that he had the right to be accompanied at this meeting? If not, I think they are not following proper procedures.

suseh97

Miley wrote: »

Many thanks to everyone for your replies and PM's.

OH is not a member of the Union, which makes this all the more frightening. It's just so frustrating. They knew fully of his medical conditions when they took him on and they also knew the illnesses are unpredictable. He can go months & months without a flare-up, and then have a few in a short time. I don't think, considering this, his sick record is that bad. He has made every effort to attend even when he's not been feeling great & has also returned to work despite having a Doctor's certificate covering him for further time off (see May 2008). It seems however this has done him no favours as he ended up having another 3 days off in the same month and that counted as 2 absences.

Off to phone the DRC, thanks for the info. Will keep you updated.

Also he could join the CWU on the day of his meeting or anytime before. As long as he has signed the membership then they have to represent him. I have a friend who has been kept on after a stage 3 meeting. So it is not a 100% dismissal as someone has suggested. Best wishes for your husband

Emmzi

Miley wrote: »

Many thanks to everyone for your replies and PM's.

OH is not a member of the Union, which makes this all the more frightening. It's just so frustrating. They knew fully of his medical conditions when they took him on and they also knew the illnesses are unpredictable. He can go months & months without a flare-up, and then have a few in a short time. I don't think, considering this, his sick record is that bad. He has made every effort to attend even when he's not been feeling great & has also returned to work despite having a Doctor's certificate covering him for further time off (see May 2008). It seems however this has done him no favours as he ended up having another 3 days off in the same month and that counted as 2 absences.

Off to phone the DRC, thanks for the info. Will keep you updated.

Miley,

the employer may also want to know
- what he can do/ is doing to control illness (so for Chrons, his diet, changes in medication etc)
- how likely this is to recur

I'll emphasise again, it's not enough to explain he is genuinely ill - that's not what is being disputed here. If they thought he was swinging the lead it'd be a conduct code matter, not attendance.

He needs to show he is doing everything he can to FULFIL THE TERMS OF HIS CONTRACT i.e. show up and do the shift. He needs to show he is managing his condition as well as possible. And he needs to have suggestions about how it can be better handled. eg is a 4 day week better? Are different shift patterns better?

I know many people are saying union, fight, it's unfair - but please, focus your fforts on working out how he can show he can actually do the job. That's what the employer is concerned about. they need someone reliable to turn up and deliver letters, not someone unpredictable who leaves other people doing extra work and getting overtime. That may sound harsh, but that's how the managers *have* to see it to run their business.

Worry about tribunals and appeals if it comes to it - for now, worry about proving he can do the job and changes he is making.



Emphasising again

ladybabe

As he is not in a union you may want to get advice from acas or cab.

I have a couple of comments:
why did he return to work whilst still under a sick note? as the royal mail should know he would not be covered insurance wise unless he has been signed on fit so they could have made his problems worse. this could be seen as them not fulfilling their duty of care to him.

Even if your medical conditions are covered under the DDA an employer still has the right once they have proved the level of sickness means that you are unable to fulfill your position i.e. you are no longer capable of undertaking your work. However they also have to prove that they have made sufficient reasonable adjustments to make it possible for you to stay in work-this could be moving your trigger points, moving roles, instigating lighter duties etc so you need to make sure that they have looked at all options to help him and with a business as big as the royal mail they would be expected to do more than a small company

he could also contact access to work they are rum by the government and are there to help people stay in work so if reasonable adjustments could be put in place to help they may be able to offer the company money towards them to encourage them to keep you in work-access them via the DWP website

hope it helps

987654

ladybabe wrote: »

As he is not in a union you may want to get advice from acas or cab.

I have a couple of comments:
why did he return to work whilst still under a sick note? as the royal mail should know he would not be covered insurance wise unless he has been signed on fit so they could have made his problems worse. this could be seen as them not fulfilling their duty of care to him.

Even if your medical conditions are covered under the DDA an employer still has the right once they have proved the level of sickness means that you are unable to fulfill your position i.e. you are no longer capable of undertaking your work. However they also have to prove that they have made sufficient reasonable adjustments to make it possible for you to stay in work-this could be moving your trigger points, moving roles, instigating lighter duties etc so you need to make sure that they have looked at all options to help him and with a business as big as the royal mail they would be expected to do more than a small company

he could also contact access to work they are rum by the government and are there to help people stay in work so if reasonable adjustments could be put in place to help they may be able to offer the company money towards them to encourage them to keep you in work-access them via the DWP website

hope it helps

The bit about not being covered by insurance is a total misconception.

The GP is not necessarily saying that by giving a note a person must stay away from work, they are saying that if the person stays away they are entitled to SSP.

How many people are given a note but then attend work because they would only receive SSP if they stayed off. This comment is in no relation to the OP, it's about sick notes in general.

olly300

floss2 wrote: »

Also seems to be a direct contradiction of the Dr's report commissioned by Royal Mail (see first post).

The OH doctor is commissioned by RM.

Unfortunately some OH doctors will write or edit reports to state what the company paying them wants it to say even if they have:
a. Never met you personally, and/or
b. Have a consultant's report in front of them (whether obtained by you or a specialist paid by the company) that contradicts what they have written.

There are ways of getting them to amend the report but your best defence is getting a letter from a consultant that treats you stating your fitness to do your job then sending copies to the employer by a method(s) that you can verify that they would have highly likely received it. (Keep a copy yourself.)

If you do this and your employer also knows you are covered by the DDA they will be more careful in how they intend to get rid of you.

BTW you should tell your employer explicitly now that you think you are covered by the DDA in writing just attach a note to the consultants letter.