Ireland forced into a new era of austerity

Generali

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

It is a difficult sell, but either foreigners buy German goods, or Germans buy German goods. The flipside of Ireland and the UK having an excessive trade deficit are Germany and China having an excessive trade surplus (up until the credit crunch).

The same difficult sell comes from avoiding heavy protectionism and "beggar thy neighbour", but that does not mean they are not the correct policies.

You don't really explain how you could persuade an electorate to provide huge amounts of money to another Government to prop up their Government spending. It's not even like it would be another Marshall plan as the money would mostly be spent on wages for civil servants and other Government employees in Ireland, not on imported German goods.

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

EDIT: Post 1000!

Sir_Humphrey

Generali wrote: »

You don't really explain how you could persuade an electorate to provide huge amounts of money to another Government to prop up their Government spending. It's not even like it would be another Marshall plan as the money would mostly be spent on wages for civil servants and other Government employees in Ireland, not on imported German goods.

I never said the govenment would do it directly. What I am arguing for are policies that will maintain demand in a recession.

The Germans are not in a morally superior position as our f€cklessness supported their manufacturing industry in the 2000s. Audi, BMW, Braun etc etc.

It is probably impossible to sell, which is why the Germans are not doing it. Preventing protectionism will prove an equally impossible sell, which is why that is probably going to happen too. Do you therefore now support protectionism?

EDIT: I think the swear filter needs altering a bit...it seems to have gone a bit Father Jack!

Degenerate

luvpump wrote: »

Personally I feel this whole mess has quite a way to go befor it completely unravels, I wonder if the Irish situation..Amongst others.. could bring about the downfall of the Euro ?

I've been monitoring some Irish forums recently out of interest in the whole situation. Many Irish people seem to be in a bit of a fingers-in-ears "la la I'm not listening" mode at the moment when it comes to the structural problems of the Euro. Speculation in the UK press is viewed as schadenfreude from rabid Euro-skeptics. They just don't seem to want to accept that not everything EU is gold-plated, and that the Euro was bad for pure economic reasons unrelated to politics and national pride. However, more dissenting voices are being raised and I do expect that in the face of harsh austerity a day of reckoning will come.

lifesuckssometimes

Ireland back to the dark old days high unemployment, emigration, so the flash dubliners in their oh so expensive cars will be brought down with a bang.Gluttony now for the hand outs from the EU again. Shame and im of Irish descent

Wookster

Degenerate wrote: »

They just don't seem to want to accept that not everything EU is gold-plated, and that the Euro was bad for pure economic reasons unrelated to politics and national pride.

The Euro is a great idea if all countries are as competitive and prudent as Germany. As it is Germany is the strongest member of the Eurozone and the PIIGS are, by far, the weakest and dragging the Eurozone down.

Sir_Humphrey

Wookster wrote: »

The Euro is a great idea if all countries are as competitive and prudent as Germany. As it is Germany is the strongest member of the Eurozone and the PIIGS are, by far, the weakest and dragging the Eurozone down.

But Germany would not have been in such a strong position had other people not taken out so much debt to buy their upmarket goods.

Generali

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

I never said the govenment would do it directly. What I am arguing for are policies that will maintain demand in a recession.

The Germans are not in a morally superior position as our f€cklessness supported their manufacturing industry in the 2000s. Audi, BMW, Braun etc etc.

It is probably impossible to sell, which is why the Germans are not doing it. Preventing protectionism will prove an equally impossible sell, which is why that is probably going to happen too. Do you therefore now support protectionism?

EDIT: I think the swear filter needs altering a bit...it seems to have gone a bit Father Jack!

I think we're arguing at crossed purposes. Not surprising as I've smashed up my thumb and have been taking large amounts of prescribed codeine (which metabolises in part to morphine I believe!)

That fe ck le ss thing has long been a problem - it's a word I tend to use (probably unsurprisingly given my politics) .

Degenerate

Wookster wrote: »

The Euro is a great idea if all countries are as competitive and prudent as Germany.

Yes, but I would argue that a federal goverment, with centralised taxation and spending policies, and some degree of wealth transfer is the only way to achieve that across different states.

Conrad

I always imagined the bang would be biggest in Ireland, on the basis the Irish I've met tended to be given to an overly optimistic outlook with vast appetite for property. I used to do mortgages for Ryan Air pilots, and every man jack of them was a voracious B2L beast.

Sir_Humphrey

Conrad wrote: »

I always imagined the bang would be biggest in Ireland, ..snip.... I used to do ... Ryan Air pilots, and every man jack of them was a voracious ... beast.

Ooh matron!!

Generali: IIRC , you are right about the codeine, the same happens with diamorphine which is what actually causes cardiac arrest in OD victims. Take care!