My Friend - PART 2 - Please Help Again!!

Dora_the_Explorer_5

Hi, just when it couldn't get worse - it did ! It might help to ask yourself if your friend has ever paid attention to what you say or taken any advice from you. If he hasn't he probably won't in the future.
Going on what you've written: His GF has no self esteem - needlessly supports him, copies you etc. Unless you are skilled in supporting someone to develop self esteem and confidence, there's not much you can do about her. Copying another adult is quite disturbing and won't give you a quiet life, you'll continually be wondering what she's going to do next.
Your relationship with him has changed - he's moving next door. If you tell him the ground rules of good neighbours - no popping in and out, no lending, no borrowing, no scamming - you are not being unfriendly but being straight with him from the start. Isn't that what we expect from our friends?
My honest opinion is that your both your friend and his GF have lost touch with reality. Only they can get back in touch, you can't do it for them, in exactly the same way as someone with a drink problem has to do it for themselves and their family and friends can't do it for them. The other thing is that as long as you allow him to behave towards you the way he wants, not the way you want, you're condoning his behaviour and he thinks it's ok.
I do hope this helps you to think a bit more about how to handle the future, but to be honest it looks like it could be grim. Under no circumstances lend money to someone as feckless as he is, that's not what friends are for and a good friend would never ask. Good luck.

Paisley_3

Thanks everyone.To be honest and I know it's a horrible thing to admit me and the OH have been strongly considering calling up the letting people (same as ours) and telling them that all this talk he gives of being a 'director' is tosh and hopefully then they'll get their application rejected. It's by far the worst thing I've ever considered doing but I cannot bear the thought of them living here and invading our lives like this. I don't want a protegee or a (wannabe) carbon copy of my life living next door. I'm just a normal person who works hard and am in no way flash with cash or trying to make anyone jealous. When we were all at uni together they were much the same; dodging rounds, freebie meals etc, but we put up with it as they were good friends and we thought after uni we'd all get jobs and move out of the grotty area we lived in at the time. Well, me and the OH did and they stayed behind with these dreams of businesses and riches.

Honestly short of just falling out with them I can see this getting bad - and if we fell out with them they'd still move in I reckon. Arrrgh.He's digging such a hole!!

climbgirl

I'd be wary of calling the letting agency and getting involved like that - it's one thing to talk to your friend and give advice, but actively getting involved like that is going a big step further. It could open up a can of worms for you which you don't really need.

It sounds hideous, it really does and I sympathise. But it sounds to me like you've done all you can to make him see the light, and he just doesn't want to. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink...

Start thinking about 'damage control' if he does move in, and I guess this is where the tough love bit comes into play. Tell him straight out that you don't want him round all the time, set certain times/days, things like that. It's your house after all, put your foot down! It's not going to be an easy thing to do, but it's certainly got to that point in my eyes.

themaccas

I love my friends to bits and we support each other throughgood times and bad. I've always thought this to be the essence of friendship. Someone once told me that with true friendship you get out what you put in and personally i agree with this. From what you have said in both this and your other post there does not seem to be much 'friendship' here, it appears to be more of an aquaintance. If that is the case I think you are best off keeping away if not physically - living next door it will be difficult to not see him, then emotionally. You keep going on about him being a 'friend' but it sounds as though you quite dislike him. Sorry if I've got this wrong, as I said this is my interpretation of your posts, I do wish you well.

Paisley_3

Dora_the_Explorer wrote:

Under no circumstances lend money to someone as feckless as he is, that's not what friends are for and a good friend would never ask. Good luck.

He's already mentioned ;looking after' my tax due back in April (about £1500). I've already steered the topic of conversation OFF that - besides, me and the OH are going on a nice sunshine holiday, we blooming deserve it!

He's the type to suggest staying in round ours and getting a pizza, agreeing to pay an amount towards the meal, then when the doorbell rings makes a big show of going into his wallet and oh, he has no change out of a £20 (I have NO idea where he gets this cash and we suspect he's drawing cash off a credit card - I've never had a credit card but I'm led to believe this is a stupid thing to do as it costs a fortune in interest - when he only pays the minimum per month?) so we end up paying and he goes 'oh I'll give it you when I have some change' and lo and behold we dont physically see him for 3 weeks and he forgets, and we remind him and oh he doesn't have any change again! He does this in restaurants/bars too, to the point where if he suggests going out we always suggest a place you can pay on card so he can bung it on his credit. Harsh, but I'd rather he was an extra £10 in debt than me being out of pocket paying for his meals. And it's always him that suggests going out so he can tell us how well the business is going!!

Paisley_3

themaccas wrote:

You keep going on about him being a 'friend' but it sounds as though you quite dislike him. Sorry if I've got this wrong, as I said this is my interpretation of your posts, I do wish you well.

I've known him over 3 years and it's only over the past 6mths he's really changed. I don't dislike him but I don't like being taken for a mug or lied to. The reason I don't walk away is because he's managed to alienate all his other mates and I'm soft (not with money but I do feel sorry for him). He was such a great mate and we have some great memories in the past. I keep hoping that he can sort himself out and he will return to the top guy he is deep down.

He keeps deluding himself and it's sad to see what him and his gf has become. You are right; right now I'm beginning to really dislike him especially as he's moving in next door (out of all the places he could move to) and we do feel like we are supporting him. We just feel we can't turn round and tell him directly how we feel and fall out with him because a) his life will go down the pan even faster without the little reality check we do give him and b) if we fall out with him he'll still move in next door and make it really awkward.

Some people can't see the mistakes they're making and they need to make them in order to move on. But it's hard to move on when you could really face bankruptcy, a court order, 40 or so unpaid 'employees' and thousands of pounds of debt. I know some of you can understand the predicament I'm in - he's like family in a way. You can't walk away that easy and I joined here for advice as there's no way he will. You've all been great

themaccas

Thanks Paisley for your last post I understand the situation much better, I do really feel for you, I think you are doing all you can for him but until he's had his lightbulb moment - which only he can do for himself, he'll probably keep going on the way he is. It will probably happen eventually but until then I guess it will be a difficult time for you and your OH.

climbgirl

Paisley wrote:

I joined here for advice as there's no way he will.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with that line! If he doesn't want to see it, there's no way you or anyone else can do anything to stop the train wreck!

You can't run his life for him, you can only try to reason with him and make him see, which you've clearly tried to do and which any good mate would do. I think it's admirable that you are sticking with him through the tough times. But don't let youself become a door-mat - there's only so much you can put up with, everyone has their limits and if he's lost friends over it as you say, then they've obviously reached theirs!

I used to date a guy who tried similar tricks with not paying for shares of takeaways and drinks out - 'oh, I've left my card at home, I'll pay next time'. Except it was always me who paid, there was always an excuse. In the end, I was just straight with him - pointed out what he was doing (I don't think it was deliberate) and then laid down some ground rules before we went out next time. I made it clear I had x amount of cash and that was it. That he had to pull his own weight. He got the message!

Don't let him walk all over you - he's only taking advantage because you're letting him!

Paisley_3

I know. I just wish I'd taken more advice before it got to this point and he's on the verge of moving next door. It can only get worse - goodness, it's like some bad movie. Thanks for all your advice everyone - I'm seeing the situation clearly if unsure of what to do. I'm horrible but I'm clinging to the hope he won't pass the checks for the property

elona

Paisley

I am sure you have already realised this as you did not want him to "look after" your tax rebate - but make sure you do not sign anything for him either as I would not put it past him to try to sneak your signature on something that would mean you were guaranteeeing him in some way.

Until he actually ends up bankrupt and or in court I do not think that anything will get through to him.

If you tell someone they are heading for a cliff edge and they then drive even faster towards disaster then there is nothing more that you can do.

You are ending up worrying and taking more responsibility for him than he does.

I really worry about the girlfriend copying you and them moving next door - you could end up with no life of your own and scared to leave the house in case you bump into them. It sounds more like the film "single white female " by the minute!

If you do find yourself chatting to the person dealing with the letting - I would not be surprised if your friend has quoted you as a reference without your knowlege.

Please be careful you do not end up inadvertantly responsible for him and his fantasies.

Best scenario for all concerned , including your friend would be that he gets pulled up short by the bank or inland revenue and that the letting dept realise he cannot afford to live next to you.

As the situation seems to worsen week by week - I dread what will happen next.