FT: The cost of burgeoning national debt

ninky_2

Generali wrote: »

I think that the welfare safety net should provide a decent standard of living for a short amount of time rather than a fairly low standard indefinitely. I think people should work rather than not work. On Saturday (and afterwards) I'll most likely be standing in Shopping Malls signing people up to be called by salesmen for a housing related product. It's a real 'bottom of the heap' job - I wasn't asked for qualifications or even for references.

Many thanks Generali, and thanks for your honesty. I think you have an interesting point here. I actually support the concept of "work for benefits" schemes and also see a big problem with longterm unemployment.

At least we are now out of the playground. And perhaps our views are not always as different as we might think.

Generali

vivatifosi wrote: »

Hey, Gen, I'm in the same situation as you. I'm doing a PT admin job on top of running my own business because there just isn't enough work about. Its actually strangely cathartic, although I don't earn very much doing it its good to get back to working with people (rather than running a little business from home) and there's absolutely no stress because its just a nice, easy job.

This job will be much the same - I'm a chatty person which I guess is why I post so much on here whilst unemployed so standing around gassing to people is just going to be second nature.

I guess I'll take some abuse from people looking to 'kick the cat' and that's ok I suppose. Actually it isn't, I'll bite every time but there's a down side to every job.

StevieJ

Good luck Gen :T

Generali

ninky wrote: »

Many thanks Generali, and thanks for your honesty. I think you have an interesting point here. I actually support the concept of "work for benefits" schemes and also see a big problem with longterm unemployment.

At least we are now out of the playground. And perhaps our views are not always as different as we might think.

No worries!

Look, I have my political beliefs (which most people disagree with) but I live in the real world too. I'm not some lunatic who has been cloistered from the world going down the public school-uni-bank route. I've had jobs as an office cleaner, barman, waiter, labourer on a building site, popcorn seller, plongeur (washer-upper) and so on.

I realise that if you're on a fiver an hour then you're not going to be able to save much: if you lose your job then you need a safety net. To pretend that Government can wave the budgetary wand and all our problems disappear is ludicrous. A brief reading of the economic history of the 1970s will tell us why.

Wookster

Generali wrote: »

I realise that if you're on a fiver an hour then you're not going to be able to save much: if you lose your job then you need a safety net. To pretend that Government can wave the budgetary wand and all our problems disappear is ludicrous. A brief reading of the economic history of the 1970s will tell us why.

There are also all sorts of other reasons for a safety net/ some form of welfare:

1. Without some form of welfare people don't spend which can be damaging for the economy (e.g. China)
2. It is almost impossible to have full employment and low inflation without some forms of import duty
3. It is impossible for individuals to plan for all eventualities

My objection to the current welfare state is that it is possible to claim indefinitely and you are entitled to claim it for doing nothing at all. It should really be limited to a finite period and subject to some sort of community benefiting work.

Wookster

Good luck with the job Generali and good hope things start to get busier soon Vivatosi.

Generali

Wookster wrote: »

My objection to the current welfare state is that it is possible to claim indefinitely and you are entitled to claim it for doing nothing at all. It should really be limited to a finite period and subject to some sort of community benefiting work.

I imagine that the best thing would be along the lines of getting (for example) 6 months for being a tax payer (perhaps with a qualification period) and then after that you have to work for the state to get further payments. For example, the UK (IME) is litter ridden. There is little skill and few illnesses which preclude someone from collecting litter.

If someone has to look after kids then perhaps they could do something like that whilst the kiddies are at school (I write as a father of 2).

Wookster wrote: »

Good luck with the job Generali and good hope things start to get busier soon Vivatosi.

Thanks. It's not the most glamorous job I'll ever do but it pays and that's a start.

Rochdale_Pioneers

Wookster - found any evidence for your numbers yet? I'm not going to be sad enough to put that question on my sig as an open question to you - I just want you to demonstrate that your numbers aren't completely made up as they appear to be.

ninky_2

I would also say the hours for "work for benefit" should be reasonable. I think about 20 hours a week would be a good start and also help cut down in the cash-in-hand claimants.

Wookster

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Wookster - found any evidence for your numbers yet? I'm not going to be sad enough to put that question on my sig as an open question to you - I just want you to demonstrate that your numbers aren't completely made up as they appear to be.

Well this is an estimate - the year isn't over but here you go. Are you going to play straight and answer the question or are you going to keep your head buried in the sand?



(Full article here: http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13110366)

Generali wrote: »

I imagine that the best thing would be along the lines of getting (for example) 6 months for being a tax payer (perhaps with a qualification period) and then after that you have to work for the state to get further payments. For example, the UK (IME) is litter ridden. There is little skill and few illnesses which preclude someone from collecting litter.

If someone has to look after kids then perhaps they could do something like that whilst the kiddies are at school (I write as a father of 2).

Exactly - maybe this will mean you see less litter happening in a few years as well. What this country needs is some creative thinking and imagination.