Scarborough BS and Skipton Mortgage DD rip off

Marc1978

Rednoseranter wrote: »

Sorry should have clarified - Option 3 is adding the March payment to the mortgage balance and effectively missing it completely - it will not mean just 3 days worth of charges you will pay interest on it for the term of the loan.

Sorry to disagree again!!

I think the reason for the confusion is that the change in payment date goes from one month into the next. So what would have been December 28th 2009 payment becomes 1st January 2010 payment. So in 2009 you only make 11 payments BUT you don't work out mortagages on a yearly basis but on the number of payments so 300 monthly payments on a 25 year mortgage.

In total you still make 300 monthly payments it is just that you are now running 3 days later. You don't miss the March payment it becomes the April payment.

If the payment date had changed from 24th March to 28th March what difference would it make?

I hope you get it sorted out. I think skipton can't deal with specifics at the moment because until the merger they shouldn't have any data that belongs to you.

fineanddandy

Marc1978 wrote: »

Sorry to disagree again!!

I think the reason for the confusion is that the change in payment date goes from one month into the next. So what would have been December 28th 2009 payment becomes 1st January 2010 payment. So in 2009 you only make 11 payments BUT you don't work out mortagages on a yearly basis but on the number of payments so 300 monthly payments on a 25 year mortgage.

In total you still make 300 monthly payments it is just that you are now running 3 days later. You don't miss the March payment it becomes the April payment.

If the payment date had changed from 24th March to 28th March what difference would it make?

I hope you get it sorted out. I think skipton can't deal with specifics at the moment because until the merger they shouldn't have any data that belongs to you.

Hi Marc,

Just spoken to the helpline, and the three options are the ONLY options, I offered to pay 3 days extra interest, and they said NO, the three options are the ONLY options. I have therefore issued a formal complaint, and the team that deals with the complaints will be in touch. Apparently, they are rather busy..I wonder why:mad:

fineanddandy

Rednoseranter wrote: »

Effectively they are expecting two payments to be made in three days. The final paragraph of the first page confirms this, in the letter they confirm that the March payment will not be collected, but is expected to be paid either earlier in March, gradually over a period of time or by being added to the mortgage balance - the April payment will be taken on 1st April.

Otherwise why give people these three options - it looks like the Scarb collect mortgage payments one month in arrears whereas the Skipton collect for the month in advance - this is the rationale behind the change.

The scarb helpline explained it like this... Skipton add interest daily instead of monthly, so Skipton didn't take it on the 01st of the month, you would be paying interest right through til the 28th...which I understand, my argument is why should i be expected to find an extra payment between them moving it 3 days... Scarboro are looking it as a monthly issue, not a chronological one! Its so frustrating!

Marc1978

Can't understand why they didn't give an illustration of what happens with the different options in the letter they sent.

Let us know how you get on, I'm sure other people will be interested in the outcome.

Robert_Sterling_3

...................................

Marc1978

fineanddandy wrote: »

The scarb helpline explained it like this... Skipton add interest daily instead of monthly, so Skipton didn't take it on the 01st of the month, you would be paying interest right through til the 28th...which I understand, my argument is why should i be expected to find an extra payment between them moving it 3 days... Scarboro are looking it as a monthly issue, not a chronological one! Its so frustrating!

That's right but remember you don't have to pay the Scarborough payment on the 28th, the interest on that "missed" payment is added to your mortgage and transferred to the Skipton. You then make the payment to Skipton on the 1st. Additional interest added to you account is the 3 days you are with the Skipton.

fineanddandy

Marc1978 wrote: »

Can't understand why they didn't give an illustration of what happens with the different options in the letter they sent.

Let us know how you get on, I'm sure other people will be interested in the outcome.

I asked them for an illustration Marc. They side stepped it, so I will just have to wait till the complaint resolution team get back to me...they might accept the pay "3 day's interest" argument...We can but hope, but I'm not holding my breath :rolleyes:

scarboroughdd

I don't usually post to forums like this and I can't promise that I will return but let me say that I am surprised by the naivety and ignorance shown by some of the correspondents here – I thought this was a help site!

Especially Mr Sterling - what exactly are you trying prove?

What Scarborough are trying to do here is a complete rip-off. It’s the most outrageous business letter I have ever received. There are regulations to prevent building societies from doing this to their customers. What we need to do is to put immense pressure on the SCAR and the FSA to reverse this decision.

What one must consider is this:

· Is this a reasonable customer request?
· Is the communication clear and unambiguous?
· Has it been described adequately so that one with a rudimentary understanding of finance would understand the implications of what is being asked and can one make an informed decision about the various options?
· Are the time scales reasonable?
· Do the terms and conditions enable these types of changes?

On all of these counts SCAR’s request fails.

The facts: SCAR are aligning with SKIP by collecting in advance not in arrears, interest will be accrued on a daily not a monthly basis. Net impact is that over a 12 month period, 13 payments will be made as 1 payment is a ‘catch-up’. Less that 4 weeks notice is being given for families to save up another mortgage payment out of sync with a pay packet.

The default option is that it the ‘missed’ payment is added to the loan. For most people this will be the preferable option but at no point do SCAR illustrate how much this will cost over the life of the loan. It’s certainly not 42p. It’s the full monthly payment which is due or will be added to the life of the loan where of course over time this will be a far bigger sum.

In theory paying cash in advance should provide a marginally lower interest payment (and it does 'reduce' the term by one month) but without being told what your repayment will be, it is difficult for anyone to understand the impact.

SCAR are merely seeking to use this as emergency leverage to increase cash flow at the cost of thousands of household budgets. They are assuming that our ignorance of capital interest and the time cost of money will mean that we won’t complain.

Moreover they don’t have any scope to make this change. There is no provision in the mortgage terms and conditions (yes they can move to daily but not change to advance payment). The FSA – who approved the merger – have stated that no terms and conditions will change, neither will collections.

And finally back to where I started. This is the most impenetrable and misleading letter I have ever received from a business. All the nonsense about actually not changing account numbers before they get into the meat of the business: we need more money from you.

If certain contributors to this site can’t even understand the financial implications, what hope the elderly or those with learning difficulties like our earlier contributor who seems only to be able to communicate using animated icons.

Do three things today. Call SCAR and log a complaint. Write to SCAR and complain. Call FSA (Mortgage Technical) and make a complaint.

And one other thing: get out from SKIP as soon as you can – they have made SCAR do this.

fineanddandy

Marc1978 wrote: »

That's right but remember you don't have to pay the Scarborough payment on the 28th, the interest on that "missed" payment is added to your mortgage and transferred to the Skipton. You then make the payment to Skipton on the 1st. Additional interest added to you account is the 3 days you are with the Skipton.

Only problem with that Marc is that they wont accept that argument, as they only work in months and not days..the helpline said if I dont pay the March payment as well, then the whole months payment and interest will be added to the full term.

fineanddandy

scarboroughdd wrote: »

I don't usually post to forums like this and I can't promise that I will return but let me say that I am surprised by the naivety and ignorance shown by some of the correspondents here – I thought this was a help site!

Especially Mr Sterling - what exactly are you trying prove?

What Scarborough are trying to do here is a complete rip-off. It’s the most outrageous business letter I have ever received. There are regulations to prevent building societies from doing this to their customers. What we need to do is to put immense pressure on the SCAR and the FSA to reverse this decision.

What one must consider is this:

· Is this a reasonable customer request?
· Is the communication clear and unambiguous?
· Has it been described adequately so that one with a rudimentary understanding of finance would understand the implications of what is being asked and can one make an informed decision about the various options?
· Are the time scales reasonable?
· Do the terms and conditions enable these types of changes?

On all of these counts SCAR’s request fails.

The facts: SCAR are aligning with SKIP by collecting in advance not in arrears, interest will be accrued on a daily not a monthly basis. Net impact is that over a 12 month period, 13 payments will be made as 1 payment is a ‘catch-up’. Less that 4 weeks notice is being given for families to save up another mortgage payment out of sync with a pay packet.

The default option is that it the ‘missed’ payment is added to the loan. For most people this will be the preferable option but at no point do SCAR illustrate how much this will cost over the life of the loan. It’s certainly not 42p. It’s the full monthly payment which is due or will be added to the life of the loan where of course over time this will be a far bigger sum.

In theory paying cash in advance should provide a marginally lower interest payment (and it does 'reduce' the term by one month) but without being told what your repayment will be, it is difficult for anyone to understand the impact.

SCAR are merely seeking to use this as emergency leverage to increase cash flow at the cost of thousands of household budgets. They are assuming that our ignorance of capital interest and the time cost of money will mean that we won’t complain.

Moreover they don’t have any scope to make this change. There is no provision in the mortgage terms and conditions (yes they can move to daily but not change to advance payment). The FSA – who approved the merger – have stated that no terms and conditions will change, neither will collections.

And finally back to where I started. This is the most impenetrable and misleading letter I have ever received from a business. All the nonsense about actually not changing account numbers before they get into the meat of the business: we need more money from you.

If certain contributors to this site can’t even understand the financial implications, what hope the elderly or those with learning difficulties like our earlier contributor who seems only to be able to communicate using animated icons.

Do three things today. Call SCAR and log a complaint. Write to SCAR and complain. Call FSA (Mortgage Technical) and make a complaint.

And one other thing: get out from SKIP as soon as you can – they have made SCAR do this.

God bless you, you sound like you know your onions...I wonder if Martin would get involved?