where is the money. where have all the unpaid taxes gone

bubblesmoney

chewmylegoff wrote: »

banks do pay VAT on things they buy. they can only claim VAT back on expenditure relating to VATable turnover. lending money to people, and messing about with derivatives contracts are not VATable. Hence they pay VAT in the same way as you do when you buy something.

banks also pay corporation tax, so any profit they make from derivatives business is taxed in the same way as any other profit.

what you essentially seem to be saying is that banks should pay tax twice on certain elements of their business - they should be taxed on the transaction and the profit. the only point of doing this would be if you wanted to drive derivatives business out of the UK and into other financial centres.

if that's what you want to achieve you might as well make it illegal - either way you aren't going to see any additional tax revenue.

i am not asking for double taxation for uk tax paying banks or other institutions. many of the participants in these transactions are offshore entities who dont pay any uk taxes, they should be taxed for the transaction made in the uk.

chewmylegoff

bubblesmoney wrote: »

i am not asking for double taxation for uk tax paying banks or other institutions. many of the participants in these transactions are offshore entities who dont pay any uk taxes, they should be taxed for the transaction made in the uk.

well, they're not going to buy it in the UK if you do that, they'll buy it from somewhere else. the result being that the institution makes less profit from the fee/commission built in to the derivative contract, and the tax take goes down.

harryhound

So you take more money off the wicked corporations and give it to those nice politicians.
What do they do with it?

Dithering_Dad

You don't pay VAT on cakes either. Those fat cats at Mr Kipling are laughing at the common man. They should be put against the wall. GRR :mad:

Incidently, when you buy shares, you pay 0.5% in stamp duty.

lesley1960

bubblesmoney wrote: »

i am talking about clawing back the arrears from all hedge funds and any financial entity that made these financial transactions (CDS, CDO, CDS square and what nots) in the uk.

dont all the small fry like us pay VAT on many transactions. then why exempt the bigger payers. you call a carpet cleaning company they will charge VAT, call a removals (one man business) VAT will still be charged, have a meal at a small restaurant tax will still be charged, buy property you pay duty, pay insurance again the same story, buy car insurance, break down cover etc you pay taxes again.

but when you buy and sell billions / trillions in securities in over the counter transactions (CDS etc which basically are one type of insurance / hedges) then you seem to get away without paying taxes. i am not aware they pay taxes on these OTC transactions. if they indeed did pay taxes then the uk coffers would have been overflowing now. london was the financial nerve centre which means majority of these transactions would have been routed through london most probably. so even a 0.1% tax or VAT would have raised anywhere between 500-800 billion depending on the number of transactions and amount involved in the securities traded OTC in the uk by all these financial institutions.

companies still pay VAT on goods or services performed and billed even if they make a loss at the end of the year. so why the exclusion for people involved in these types of securities?

naked CDS etc is basically gambling then why is it not under the purview of the gambling commission as well. why is it allowed to run as OTC products escaping regulatory purview?

Vat registered companies dont actually lose out on vat , all we do is collect it in for the government , its the end user, ie average man on the street who pays the vat

lesley1960

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

You don't pay VAT on cakes either. Those fat cats at Mr Kipling are laughing at the common man. They should be put against the wall. GRR :mad:

Incidently, when you buy shares, you pay 0.5% in stamp duty.

Why would Kiplings be better off for not charging vat on cakes?

chewmylegoff

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

You don't pay VAT on cakes either. Those fat cats at Mr Kipling are laughing at the common man. They should be put against the wall. GRR :mad:

Incidently, when you buy shares, you pay 0.5% in stamp duty.

surely mr kipling's products are principally fruit filled pies, although i'm not sure of their VAT status...

drc

bubblesmoney wrote: »

even if registered offshore, any transaction that occurs on uk sovereign areas should come under UK taxation laws. these tax havens are just a method for the rich to escape taxation which they expect the people earning less to pay without fail.

why should a person earning 14k a year have to pay VAT but the same does not apply for a trillion dollar transaction done in the UK by a company.

The rich pay taxes? You've got to be joking. Remember Leona Helmsley, the billionairess who was done for tax evasion years ago. At the time she apparently said: "We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."

Just goes to show you the mindset of some of the uber-rich. Pure greed.

Arcaine

lesley1960 wrote: »

Why would Kiplings be better off for not charging vat on cakes?

Because any VAT registered company claims the VAT back from the Government on its purchases and pays the VAT it collects on its sales to the Govenment. So by not charging VAT on the sales they will be a net recipient of money.

Arcaine

One thing I would like to add, I work for a small manufacturing company as Financial Controller and we employ about 90 people. My job is to safeguard the assets of company and ensure that the financial obligations of the company are met. I do not work for the Governement and if there is a way I can LEGALLY save some tax or take a position so that there is more money in the pocket of my employees or we can re-invest in the company I will take it.