Harriet Harman on Sir Fred Goodwin

1echidna

We ain't seen nothing yet. It may well be inevitable that the gov't just won't have enough money. Where do you expect it to default first, on its commitments to public services, partially freezing peoples savings accounts, defaulting on paying pensions in full, all may become preferable to a complete collapse of gov't and anarchy.

bubblesmoney

goodwin was not of pensionable age but discretionary powers were used by the govt minister to approve a full pension when he should have got half what has been approved now as per his actual entitlements.

wasnt the council chief in the baby p case dismissed from her job for derelicion of duty or something like that. then how was goodwins case different where he ruined one of UKs biggest banks, why was he not fired without approving any discretionary benefits. why the special treatment for such people. and the icing on the cake is people such as him get govt honours and get knighted for services to the banking industry. his HBOS buddy was knighted as well. werent they knighted by the same labour govt. werent they given golden parachutes by the same labour govt.

now suddenly with elections not far off labour is singing different tunes.

if goodwin is allowed to get a full pension when he is not of pensionable age and without adequate service. then by the same yardstick every RBS employee who is laid off by RBS during this downturn is entitled to a full pension as well. they cannot have a different yardstick for pension entitlements for failed executives and another yardstick for lower level bank employees who had nothing to do with the bank failure. every RBS employee who gets laid off should take their cases to employment tribunals for getting full pension just like goodwin was approved for a full pension. otherwise it will be a gross example of discrimination and unequal treatment. all were RBS employees and belonged to the same pension scheme so they have equal pension rights.

employees of other nationalised or majority govt owned banks as well should find out by FOI requests in all banks getting govt bailouts what the compensation packages of the senior executives who got golden handshakes were and if they were allowed full pensions then it is fair for them to ask for full pensions if laid off as well. why the f*ck should senior executives be eligible for full pensions and not lower level staff?

vivatifosi

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

I would also like to see the nincompoop who negotiated all this, Lord Myners - and his team, publicly shamed and never work again.

The role of Myners in this does worry me. This is the guy who has effectively shaped the regulatory framework for pensions in the UK in the last few years and came up with what seemed like many good ideas.

Now I'm thinking if he can miss such totally fundamental points, was his review flawed? Or was it a piece of good work and since then he's got a bit shoddy and overlooked things?

I'd really like to see a policy of more haste less speed introduced where the government is concerned. They are making decisions with our money, far too quickly, and without full exploration of the likely outcomes.

beaujolais-nouveau

Masomnia wrote: »

the Mail reported that our major clearing banks were 3 hours away from closing their doors, turning off the ATMs

Allegedly. Especially allegedly, as it was the Mail reporting this.

I am certain that, had Parliament been allowed to consider Clown's proposal to give the banks £8 billion of our money before he handed it over, someone - someone - would have said: what about a quid pro quo, a legally-binding requirement not to hoard it. But it didn't occur to Clown, and apparently to no one else advising Clown at the time, that the banks might just take the £8 billion and sit on it. Which is what they did because they knew something that neither the Government nor the electorate knew - that there was worse to come. And that "worse" is still climbing out of the woodwork.

Had Parliament been able to debate Clown's proposal to bail out the banks, I do think that there would have been a lively exchange and perhaps even letters to the Times about how the electorate would react to being lent their own money (on which they had already paid tax) at interest; and interest rates would have been reduced to 1 per cent or less at the same time, last October.

beaujolais-nouveau

1echidna wrote: »

Not sure that I trust parliament particularly.

Parliament is the least worst option, in my view. What we have at the moment is government by Cabinet which is not democratic and is extremely short-sighted.

1echidna

It is all very well to talk about the banks hoarding money but the FSA is telling them to do just that - rebuild their balance sheets. A further collapse is in no ones interest.

1echidna

beaujolais-nouveau wrote: »

Parliament is the least worst option, in my view. What we have at the moment is government by Cabinet which is not democratic and is extremely short-sighted.

Oh yes and you would have parliament deciding on the detailed design of an oil platform after the Piper Alpha disaster. Seems a bit unrealistic to me.

beaujolais-nouveau

1echidna wrote: »

It is all very well to talk about the banks hoarding money but the FSA is telling them to do just that - rebuild their balance sheets. A further collapse is in no ones interest.

It is our money, taxpayers' money and our children's and grandchildren's taxes. And Clown just gave it to them - they didn't have to earn it. Perhaps a couple more bank collapses would stop the others expecting bail-out number 3.

For the next 50 years, we can forget about equipping the defence forces adequately to defend us; we can forget about funding research for new cures; roads and bridges will fall into disrepair and be closed because there is no money to maintain and keep them safe. Civil servants, teachers, will be required to take a cut in salary (that happened in the 1930s). Unless we find a diamond mine or a vast new oil field within our national boundaries, we are stuffed - and very, very vulnerable to invasion by another country looking for somewhere to export their Third World immigrants or convicted criminals to. There will be a huge increase in crime, and not enough police to deal with it (police budgets have already been cut), huge increase in unemployment, massively expensive food. Even countries like Thailand are better off than the UK, as they at least can feed themselves.

Yes, I am very gloomy and - I think - with good reason.

beaujolais-nouveau

1echidna wrote: »

Oh yes and you would have parliament deciding on the detailed design of an oil platform after the Piper Alpha disaster.

Non sequitur. What the flip has the design of an oil platform got to do with the current global synchronised financial collapse?

123oleary

fred goodwin is now having his use of expenses probed by the government and being lectured on financial integrity by peter mandelson. pot and kettle ?