Charges for private dental treatment

Undisputedtruth

Shame you couldn't come up with any research using Google to say the Ozone doesn't work or not effective. I was looking forward to it.

Your Google search on Julian Holmes is interesting but does not detract the effectiveness of the Ozone treatment. Of course you might say that if Julian was corrupt then Ozone treatment was corrupt as well. But it is like saying that if Tony Blair is a liar then everyone in the UK is as well! Anyway, Ozone is undergoing clinical trials through the FDA so we will see whether Ozone is a viable form of treatment or not.

The Podcast with Julian Holmes was excellent and it was interesting to hear there were no reported cases of superbugs, MRSA, etc in Cuba & Russia where they use Ozone as a disinfectant.

Undisputedtruth

SparkyG

I do not profess to understand the benefits or disadvantages of ozone therapy, but Kavo are doing themselves no favours by continuing the association with Holmes.

The fact that the GDC has taken the very severe step of an interim suspension, and renewed it twice while investigating speaks volumes. Holmes had fled to S Africa with patients money, leaving many in pain and having to pay out thousands for remedial treatment. I speak with personal experience.

Who would believe in an alternative therapy with such a doubtful proponent?

Toothsmith

It is not my job to prove it's effectiveness or not.

It is my job to weigh up the evidence and decide if a treatment is in the best interests of my patients.

If there is not enough evidence either way, then all I am doing is using my patients as unpaid Guinea Pigs. Worse - they are paying me to be guinea pigs.

THIS is an article about the NICE findings.

It does not say it's good, it does not say it's bad. It says it needs MORE WORK.

I draw your attention to the key questions:-

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Key Questions
It is well known that ozone gas can kill bacteria. But the key question is whether brief exposure to ozone gas has any practical value in dental practice. The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE)—an independent British organization that reviews medical technology—has evaluated the evidence related to caries by asking and answering several questions:

For managing pit and fissure caries, is the HealOzone procedure more effective than the combination of oral hygiene, diet advice, chlorhexidine/fluoride varnish, and fissure sealant? If so, is it a cost-effective alternative?

For managing non-cavitated root caries, is the HealOzone procedure more clinically effective than the combination of oral hygiene, diet advice, and varnish? If so, is it cost-effective?

For managing cavitated caries, how often, if at all, is ‘HealOzone procedure’ an alternative to fillings?

For managing cavitated caries, does the application of ozone gas and of a remineralising solution to the cavity before restoration prolong the life of a filling? If so, is it cost-effective?


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It may be the best thing since sliced bread but no-one has proved it yet.

It hasn't been shown to be any more effective than any other methods of minimising fillings that we have at the moment.

As soon as it is shown to, I will have one!


Every assumption you have made about this machine so far has been wrong.

You thought it was a 'new' treatment - It's been around for years

You say it can do away with drilling - It can't

You thought it was a 'one hit fix' - It isn't

You think it works all by itself - It doesn't - diet change & pastes are needed too

You think it's the only way to deal with early decay - It isn't

You think it's the price that puts me off wanting one - It isn't

You thought it had a decay probe on it - It doesn't

You thought the UK's water was fluoridated - It isn't

And you still sign yourself Undisputedtruth! :rotfl:


I am really happy your dentist has one of these machines - even though he either explains it's use badly to you or is using it incorrectly. I hope you will be very happy with the black marks you have all over your teeth (Because arrested decay doesn't turn white again).

In a few years time, if anyone manages to prove it works I may well join the ranks of happy healozone users. At the moment though, I find diet advice, fissure sealants and fluoride varnishes work in exactly the same way!

Dora_the_Explorer_5

Well, although this looks like a private, robust discussion I'm joining in

Now I know a load of nutters are going to come crawling out now

Not me TS, I don't believe in bad science; I've got some amalgam fillings which I think are probably decades old and I mixed pounds of the stuff 45 years ago when I was a chairside assistant, and nothing's dropped off yet :rotfl:

it was interesting to hear there were no reported cases of superbugs, MRSA, etc in Cuba & Russia where they use Ozone as a disinfectant.

You are having a laugh - this is absurd. Of course there are cases, they're not reported because Cuba is a closed country and Russia is incapable of accurate record keeping and consequent reporting in it's current state.

tonytooth

I too have been following this post and would like to comment, if i may..
I do not understand why toothsmith's practices/policies are being questioned and attacked.
It seems crazy that this guy is giving up a fair bit of time on these boards to help people out, and is being ridiculed...
And as he has pointed out, a number of assumptions based on healozone have been wrong. It is not a wonder treatment, and if it was, it would make our jobs a hell of a lot easier......

Undisputedtruth

tonytooth wrote:

I too have been following this post and would like to comment, if i may..
I do not understand why toothsmith's practices/policies are being questioned and attacked.

Sorry but on a discussion forum every point of view should be questioned and discussed from all angles. If toothsmith's feel vulnerable then this is not my fault. I'm simply asking questions and analysing the answers.

tonytooth wrote:

It seems crazy that this guy is giving up a fair bit of time on these boards to help people out, and is being ridiculed...
And as he has pointed out, a number of assumptions based on healozone have been wrong. It is not a wonder treatment, and if it was, it would make our jobs a hell of a lot easier......

I've seen enough Dentists to know that sometimes you can't rely on a single point of view. Otherwise you are asking for trouble.

Toothsmith's overreaction in his last post has made him look ridiculous. I simply asked him if he could provide evidence that Ozone doesn't work. So far he hasn't. Rather than providing evidence he simply directed a wave of attack by misrepresenting my words and copying stuff from the dental watch website about NICE comments about Ozone. I suspect Toothsmith will never find the evidence to
back up his initial comments that Ozone was an expensive gimmick.

I have every respect for the health professionals as long as they can conduct themselves in the appropriate manner by providing proper factual evidence and explanation.

Undisputedtruth

Toothsmith

Undisputedtruth wrote:

Toothsmith's overreaction in his last post has made him look ridiculous.

I will leave the judgement of that to others.

Undisputedtruth

Toothsmith wrote:

I will leave the judgement of that to others.

Absolutely, in this case I'll go back to your earlier comments bit by bit and scrutinise them even further especially where you have misrepresented my words.

Undisputedtruth

sylwright

Undisputedtruth wrote:

Absolutely, in this case I'll go back to your earlier comments bit by bit and scrutinise them even further especially where you have misrepresented my words.

Undisputedtruth

For god's sake get a life!! and I can see why you chose your name, but maybe you should change it to !!!!!! KNOWITALL!! It would be more accurate.

Sorry to bring the tone down but your attitude has really got my back up :mad: :mad: :mad:

tomstickland

I'm very interested to read the info on filling materials. I was talking to my dentist about amalgam and he also explained that the Mercury forms into a stable bond. It's a Nickel allergy that's more of a problem.

When I had a White filling I noticed that the resin absolutely stinks and it made the back of my mouth sore/tasted really bad for a few days. It seems to be some pretty extreme resin filler, but then again I suppose it has to be to survive for years in the mouth.

As to Ozone etc, there are loads of hyped procedures out there that might well have some sound basis, but it takes years for the true picture to emerge.