Parking ticket for a 'Total Loss' vehicle

downing1064

Hi
I have an interesting problem. (no jokes please)

I've just received a parking ticket for a vehicle that was made a 'Total Loss' or 'Written Off' and disposed of by my Insurance company 12months ago.
I would imagine I just need to inform London Borough of Redbridge of this and I won't have to pay it but that is not my real dilemma.
My car was originally stolen, used in a ram-raid and damaged. The insurer decided that it was uneconomical to repair and declared it a Class C Total Loss (Under this category there is no legal obligation to dispose of the vehicle) it then made me two offers which I refused, I also stated my objection to my vehicle being disposed of until the claim was settled. The Insurer went ahead and disposed with my vehicle against my wishes.

My case has been with the Financial Ombudsman service for 12months now with a measly £150 compensation for 'distress and inconvenience' been offered by the insurer and an insistance I accept their valuation of the vehicle. I could go more into this case but would take up too much of your time so my real question is:-

The Insurer demanded and received the Vehicle Registration Document from me early on in proceedings, so was it not their responsibility to inform the DVLA about change of ownership when they disposed of the vehicle?
If change of ownership has not been sent to DVLA am I actually still the legal owner of the car?

I'd be grateful for any comments or input.
Many thanks
Rich

r44flyer

I received a speeding ticket for a car which I sold some time before the ticket arrived. I simply wrote to the prosecuting constabulary and the DVLA and told them I didn't own it anymore, and that was that. The DVLA take your word for it, I didn't need to provide any evidence of proof of sale or anything.

I would imagine the same would apply in your case. Call them first to ask what to do, write to the DVLA and copy the letter to the ticket issuer along with written explanation.

Technically, when you surrendered the vehicle and the V5 to the insurer it became their property, so you're no longer the owner anyway.

Neil_B

i think you might be on dodgy ground if you did not advise DVLA yourself?

one of those i have to refer to PePiPoo. they will know.

downing1064

Neil_B wrote: »

i think you might be on dodgy ground if you did not advise DVLA yourself?

one of those i have to refer to PePiPoo. they will know.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough on ownership. I never actually relinquished ownership of the vehicle and didn't want it sold or disposed of but the Insurer took it upon themselves to dispose of the car. It seems it was sold at auction by their salvage agents without my knowledge at the time so surely the responsibility rests with the Insurer or their agents because they held the Vehicle Registration Document with the relevant forms for change of ownership.

Neil_B

I agree that what you are saying makes sense. I'm just concerned that the rules around such an issue can be a bit funny. i honestly don't know the answer and hence directed you to those that will.

DirectDebacle

downing1064 wrote: »

Hi
I have an interesting problem.

The insurer decided that it was uneconomical to repair and declared it a Class C Total Loss (Under this category there is no legal obligation to dispose of the vehicle) it then made me two offers which I refused, I also stated my objection to my vehicle being disposed of until the claim was settled. The Insurer went ahead and disposed with my vehicle against my wishes.

My case has been with the Financial Ombudsman service for 12months now with a measly £150 compensation for 'distress and inconvenience' been offered by the insurer and an insistance I accept their valuation of the vehicle. I could go more into this case but would take up too much of your time so my real question is:-

The Insurer demanded and received the Vehicle Registration Document from me early on in proceedings, so was it not their responsibility to inform the DVLA about change of ownership when they disposed of the vehicle?
If change of ownership has not been sent to DVLA am I actually still the legal owner of the car?

I'd be grateful for any comments or input.
Many thanks
Rich

What is your main concern here. The parking ticket or the behaviour of your insurance company. I suspect the latter as a full explanation of the facts as you state them to Redbridge will surely force them to look elsewhere for collection of the parking fine.

Without knowing the full ins and outs of your dispute with the insurance company the following may well apply.

A V5 is not proof of ownership of a vehicle. It gives the details of who and where the vehicle is usually kept. Thus you are shown as the registered keeper. So how do you prove whether or not you are the owner of a vehicle. Same way as you prove you own most things that you buy, with a bill of sale or receipt. I accept that most people will view a V5 as proof of ownership but it is not strictly the case.

Your vehicle was stolen and recovered damaged. Presumably your insurers took charge of it and arranged storage until such time as an agreement was reached as how to deal with it. So far they have lawful possession of the vehicle as I assume you did not object to this course of action.

You are still the owner of the vehicle. As is usual practice you send the V5 to your insurers. At this point, depending on how things are developing regarding the claim, you may or may not be the keeper. If not then it is at this point that DVLA should be informed of the change of keeper. Not to be confused with change of owner.

It now gets even fuzzier. You specifically request the vehicle is not disposed of without your prior consent. As the owner of the vehicle you are within your rights to make this request. Nevertheless your insurer disposes of the vehicle.

Did they send you anything that shows or tends to show that they bought the vehicle from you? If not then they may well have problems.

A person is guilty of theft if a person dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it. That is the basic definition of theft.

The definition goes further and states that if a person appropriates property belonging to another (note the omission of the word 'dishonestly' here) and then treats that property as if it were their own with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it, then that is also theft.

From what you describe it would appear on the face of it that your vehicle has been stolen a second time, by your insurers on this occasion.

An interesting scenario. I don't know if the above helps your case or not.

To simplify the whole owner/regd keeper thing. You hire a vehicle. It is not regd to you and neither are you the owner. You do have lawful possession. You decide to sell it and get a good price. In that case you have moved from being in lawful possession to assuming rights of ownership with the intention of permanently depriving the owner of it. Theft.

Run it by Redbridge, might be a new one for them.