Why is no-one talking about HSBC?

sabretoothtigger

Which asian country has borrowed money from abroad and invested in american sub prime.
They are just suffering falling exports afaik, Id be glad to hear of any other significant reasons

bubblesmoney

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

Which asian country has borrowed money from abroad and invested in american sub prime.
They are just suffering falling exports afaik, Id be glad to hear of any other significant reasons

i remember reading somewhere that AIG related banks (in china i think) etc are involved just like the parent AIG company in the securities market, so just like AIG they might be in deep !!!!!! as well. think i read it on the ticker forum. btw AIG started out originally in China and then moved elsewhere!!!

AIG's history dates back to 1919, when Cornelius Vander Starr established an insurance agency in Shanghai, China. Starr was the first Westerner in Shanghai to sell insurance to the Chinese. After his business became successful in Asia, he expanded to other markets, including Latin America, Europe, and the Middle East.I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"][U][COLOR=#0066cc]citation needed[/COLOR][/U][/URL][/I In 1962, Starr gave management of the company's less than successful U.S. holdings to Maurice R. "Hank" Greenberg, who shifted the company's U.S. focus from personal insurance to high-margin corporate coverage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_International_Group

edit:

2005 Approved by the China Securities Regulatory Commission, The Ministry of Commerce and the State Administration for Industry and Commerce, AIG Global Investment Corp. raised its stake in AIG-Huaitai Fund Management Company Limited, from 33 percent to 49 percent. AIG Private Bank Ltd. received approval from the China banking Regulatory Commission to set up its representative office in Shanghai. It is the first foreign private bank to receive approval to open a representative office in Shanghai.

http://market-ticker.org/archives/824-AIG-Inquiring-Minds-Want-To-Know.html

https://www1.aia.com!!!!/aiaEng/Web/AboutUs/Aig.jsp

456789

afaik China owns lots of American Govt. Bonds

udydudy

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

Which asian country has borrowed money from abroad and invested in american sub prime.
They are just suffering falling exports afaik, Id be glad to hear of any other significant reasons

1 year or so back i heard a lot of a few words like "Decoupled Economies", "BRIC Economies", blah, blah, blah!!What everybody forgot was who were the guys saying these words, the same bankers, hedge funds, etc who are now going around with begging bowls or are quitely behind the scene being helped by government money.;)

Did the western governments cry themselves hoarse that the Oil price was up due to growing demand and internal consumption by emerging economies, and not due to speculation. many bankers said these economies were decoupled from western world. :A

WHo made money in Oil, Goldman Sachs!! I think people would like to check back as to where the higher levels of the US treasury originate from!! Not to say any of them were involved in anythin shady, but does make on wonder.:D

A quick google search throws up that Henry Paulson, Neel Kaskhari,etc throws a lot more names onwikepedia!!.

Oil went from $147 to below $40 in around less than 6 months. I did not know economies went down so quickly(US took 2 years before getting here).

and like sabretoothtigger rightly siad they are ONLY suffering falling exports, but most asian(and south east asian) economies lives on exports(china-manufacturing & India-Services). All these orders take around 6-9 months to be fullfilled and are placed well in advance. Now what we are seeing is the effect of orders placed 9 months back. As of today I doubt to many new orders are being placed so a lot of these factories and call centres and software centres are going to be out of orders and laying off people which will automatically transalte to lower internal consumption until the western world recovers.

Watch how the rating agencies now suddenly wake up and downgrade all these economies to junk status!!!. then lets see how HSBCs corporate loan books look like. Agreed they have been conservative and did not spend like RBS on buying ABN Amro at thepeak!!!..

sabretoothtigger

HSBC downgraded their bad debt in 07, they dont seem to have shied away from it

China is large enough to sell to itself, I dont know if they are deficient in resources in some way but its a question of efficiency and reorganisation I think

What they dont want is to lose is this cash cow of american consumerism, they have thrown all the gears out of their economy so they only have one top speed 5th gear left, to churn out goods constantly for export with a fake exchange rate and massive foreign influence.
Its only been 30 years since 'Cultural Revolution' Mao died and left his country in peace at last. At a similar schedule to a massive accumulation of american debt and trade imbalance they have piggybacked alot of growth in that time

No doubt they are extremely lacking in a proper balanced economy. They have this choice of reduced growth and a properly balanced society at all levels.

It wont be nice for them but I dont see their country failing because they lost their best customers, theres plenty more at a reduced 'price'


Ratings companies have little business in chinese government as they have no debt like us afaik. Part of the current problem is the ratings agencies got so much money from all the debt being created by the west, they are biased towards debt and risk


http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/10/23/opinion/edchina.php



In pictures :laugh: :
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=11672322

bubblesmoney

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

In pictures :laugh: :
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=11672322

awesome video. thanks for the link.

btw my wife had a similar experience when on elephant back in a protected reseerve forest in s-india a while ago. i gave up my place for someone else on that trip as there were too many of us and not enough elephants that day. the 'mahout' the one who controls the elephant took their elephant into elephant grass which is tall enough to come to your knees when on elephant back. apparently a little distance away there were some deer in a clearing and the mahout told them that there was a tiger stalking the deer. but my wife and others couldnt see it. so the mahout took the elephant nearer, but still they couldnt spot the tiger until the tiger gave a mighty roar and charged at the deer. my wife says she almost fell off the elephant with shock as the roar was right next to them. to make it more fun while the tiger was rushing after the deer, the mahout made the elephant chase the tiger at a fast sprint much to the fright of my wife as they were on just a matress strapped on the the elephants back with them on it and just some ropes and a metal bar to hold on to for dear life while charging on elephant back through elephant grass after the tiger. i missed that chance of a lifetime though. how ever on another i did get to see wild baby elephants as big as our jeep making mock charges at our open top jeep as compensation.

Wookster

bubblesmoney wrote: »

btw my wife had a similar experience when on elephant back in a protected reseerve forest in s-india a while ago. i gave up my place for someone else on that trip as there were too many of us and not enough elephants that day. the 'mahout' the one who controls the elephant took their elephant into elephant grass which is tall enough to come to your knees when on elephant back. apparently a little distance away there were some deer in a clearing and the mahout told them that there was a tiger stalking the deer. but my wife and others couldnt see it. so the mahout took the elephant nearer, but still they couldnt spot the tiger until the tiger gave a mighty roar and charged at the deer. my wife says she almost fell off the elephant with shock as the roar was right next to them. to make it more fun while the tiger was rushing after the deer, the mahout made the elephant chase the tiger at a fast sprint much to the fright of my wife as they were on just a matress strapped on the the elephants back with them on it and just some ropes and a metal bar to hold on to for dear life while charging on elephant back through elephant grass after the tiger. i missed that chance of a lifetime though. how ever on another i did get to see wild baby elephants as big as our jeep making mock charges at our open top jeep as compensation.

That just sounds awesome. Wildlife photographers often spend their entire life waiting for such an opportunity.

I'd imagine that Tiger roars are like Lion roars - you can hear them 15kms away and they sound right next to you. Scary as hell!!!

Count_Dante

I wonder if this really is a case of the 'share sale being done from a position of strength and was designed to give it a bigger financial cushion to cope with any prolonged downturn', or if this is RBS all over again? According to the article, HSBC have a lot of subprime exposure in the US. I would be very wary of investing in these shares if given the option.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7916744.stm

sabretoothtigger

Here's another instance of the same sort of thing. According to someone I was talking to in the City the other day, were HSBC to adopt a "realistic" approach to its remaining exposure to US sub-prime mortgages, it would need to write off tens of billions of dollars more than it already has. Oh goodie.

That would mean that even HSBC, thought of as one of the more solvent banks around, would be in serious trouble, and the taxpayer would have to bail them out too along with everyone else.

The negativity you get at the bottom of a bear market is the mirror image of the irrational exuberance seen at the top of a bull market, only a good sight more dangerous because it is people's jobs and savings that the doom-mongers of the press, TV and hedge funds are playing with. Bank-trashing is all the rage.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/jeremy-warner/jeremy-warner-time-to-stop-talking-down-banking-assets-1634355.html

Woby_Tide

all good things come to those who wait it seems