Should bankers repay bonuses?

Sapphire

I'm sorry, but the idea of paying anyone in the disgraced finance sector a bonus after they have gone a long way to almost destroying our economy and after taxpayers like me (and my family), who have not gambled with our money, are having to bail our sections of the finance sector, is absolutely disgusting.

I know people who have worked incredibly hard all their lives (and at skilled jobs) and who have never received bonuses – let alone for failing in their jobs!

As for the possibility that we will lose these allegedly invaluable people, then good – perhaps they will be replaced by those who will be more honest and more efficient. In fact, it could be argued that all of the 'top' people in the finance sector should be replaced, and that if they are not they will simply carry on with their dishonest/immoral dealings, ponzi schemes, etc, after the dust has settled.

For heaven's sake, what sort of message does paying people who fail in their jobs, and in the process make millions of people incur hardship, send out to the public at large? That it's OK to behave in a reckless and greedy fashion, and that you will be rewarded for it?

chambta

Sapphire wrote: »

I'm sorry, but the idea of paying anyone in the disgraced finance sector a bonus after they have gone a long way to almost destroying our economy and after taxpayers like me (and my family), who have not gambled with our money, are having to bail our sections of the finance sector, is absolutely disgusting.

I know people who have worked incredibly hard all their lives (and at skilled jobs) and who have never received bonuses – let alone for failing in their jobs!

As for the possibility that we will lose these allegedly invaluable people, then good – perhaps they will be replaced by those who will be more honest and more efficient. In fact, it could be argued that all of the 'top' people in the finance sector should be replaced, and that if they are not they will simply carry on with their dishonest/immoral dealings, ponzi schemes, etc, after the dust has settled.

For heaven's sake, what sort of message does paying people who fail in their jobs, and in the process make millions of people incur hardship, send out to the public at large? That it's OK to behave in a reckless and greedy fashion, and that you will be rewarded for it?

Everyone in my branch is getting a bonus next month. We certainly haven't failed in our jobs.

Cleaver

Sapphire wrote: »

I'm sorry, but the idea of paying anyone in the disgraced finance sector a bonus after they have gone a long way to almost destroying our economy and after taxpayers like me (and my family), who have not gambled with our money, are having to bail our sections of the finance sector, is absolutely disgusting.

I know people who have worked incredibly hard all their lives (and at skilled jobs) and who have never received bonuses – let alone for failing in their jobs!

As for the possibility that we will lose these allegedly invaluable people, then good – perhaps they will be replaced by those who will be more honest and more efficient. In fact, it could be argued that all of the 'top' people in the finance sector should be replaced, and that if they are not they will simply carry on with their dishonest/immoral dealings, ponzi schemes, etc, after the dust has settled.

For heaven's sake, what sort of message does paying people who fail in their jobs, and in the process make millions of people incur hardship, send out to the public at large? That it's OK to behave in a reckless and greedy fashion, and that you will be rewarded for it?

I read through a well constructed post like that and just can't disagree with any of it in theory.

But in the real world if you were contracted to do a certain job, which had bonuses included, and you hit all of your targets then you should get paid your bonus. I agree with you that a holistic view needs to be taken of the financial sector and possibly cultures and ways of working need to change. But although banks are 'failing' there will be many people who haven't failed against specific targets they were set and are therefore entitled to the bonuses they were promised.

But I've just read your post again and it still makes lots of sense to me. So maybe I'm just arguing against myself. Which is rather odd.

red_bertie

Maybe all those nice execs could be persuaded to reinvest their bonnusses in the successful organisations they are working for, or donate them to charity and publish a list of how much they have donated :rotfl: what a silly thought.

I too, despair of Gordie's "fairer Britain", this deal has been done and dusted before hitting the media and they know it will cause a 48 hour furore and then we'll all move on, because there's nowt we can effectively do about it and in answer to OP's original question - yes.

Sapphire

Cleaver wrote: »

I read through a well constructed post like that and just can't disagree with any of it in theory.

But in the real world if you were contracted to do a certain job, which had bonuses included, and you hit all of your targets then you should get paid your bonus. I agree with you that a holistic view needs to be taken of the financial sector and possibly cultures and ways of working need to change. But although banks are 'failing' there will be many people who haven't failed against specific targets they were set and are therefore entitled to the bonuses they were promised.

But I've just read your post again and it still makes lots of sense to me. So maybe I'm just arguing against myself. Which is rather odd.

I think the whole system of giving out massive bonuses should be done away with in any sector, but particularly so in the financial sector, which can bring down a country through the greedy/immoral, and/or often downright dishonest/indeed criminal practices of individuals that work in the sector. The system of giving out large bonuses just encourages individuals to take risks with other people's money for personal gain.

Employees do not earn bonuses in many other industries – why on earth should they in the financial sector? They should work dilligently in their jobs for a salary, not in the hope that they will receive a bonus.

Sapphire

red_bertie wrote: »

I too, despair of Gordie's "fairer Britain", this deal has been done and dusted before hitting the media and they know it will cause a 48 hour furore and then we'll all move on, because there's nowt we can effectively do about it and in answer to OP's original question - yes.

I will move on, but I certainly won't forget Brown's lack of action against all those who have caused this mess (that includes those in the financial sector, the corrupt Lords, wealthy tax evaders, VI politicians with snouts in trough, etc).

Cleaver

Sapphire wrote: »

I think the whole system of giving out massive bonuses should be done away with in any sector, but particularly so in the financial sector, which can bring down a country through the greedy/immoral, and/or often downright dishonest/indeed criminal practices of individuals that work in the sector. The system of giving out large bonuses just encourages individuals to take risks with other people's money for personal gain.

That last line is so true, but it's also the complete backbone of most of the financial industry. Once we'd decided that we wanted to make money through financial services the whole ethos was to 'encourage individuals to take risks with other people's money for personal gain'. I may be simplifying things, but if we didn't have this aspect we may as way just have one national bank that loans money at 6% and pays 3% on savings and that's it.

Sapphire wrote: »

Employees do not earn bonuses in many other industries – why on earth should they in the financial sector? They should work dilligently in their jobs for a salary, not in the hope that they will receive a bonus.

I think you make your points very well Sapphire, but I don't agree with this. I'd say that the majority of private businesses pay some form of bonus to incentivise staff and as long as people have jobs, and we have money paying people, you'll have bonuses. If you banned bonuses in the financial services sector you'd just have successful companies giving share options, huge pensions or some other form of incentive to get the 'best' people.

chambta

At branch level at least the bonuses, should people earn them, generally only take people's earnings a little closer to the average national wage.

red_bertie

I don't think any of us have an issue with those at the bottom end of the chain.

lethal0r

they should definitely pay it all back but it wont happen will it.