28 years old and bankrupt

dudleyboy

Hi sallyjo,

Don't make the assumption that I’m tarring everybody with the same brush here. My post was a direct response to the contents of that article and those of "Liz's" ilk.

Everyone has their reasons for getting into debt (and thanks for making mine sound so trivial)... but few of us try to make excuses for the extent we get into it, especially when it's self-inflicted on such frivolous purchases.

Doing a DMP with CCCS is nothing to be ashamed of, nor is admitting that you have a spending (or any other kind of) problem/addiction, but, as wullieb1 says, I cannot understand people who are allowed to go bankrupt without paying back anything at all either. Surely if people aren't held accountable for their own actions then they will never learn from them? What I found particularly galling about Liz, or at least the way in which that article was reported, is that some how she's made out to be the victim of some terrible crime.

Wullieb1, like most of us, is determined to "NEVER get myself into that position again" having realised just how much WAS spent through having to pay the vast majority of it back ourselves (don't think I’m any different to anyone else)... whereas Liz sounds like she's relinquishing herself of all responsibility and blame. By her own admission she's APPLIED for more credit WHILE consolidating her existing £20,000 debt and then started using "a couple of credit cards and store cards which [she] had, stupidly, not put on the debt management plan and... started using these again".

Well I’m sorry but she's an idiot.

I, too, am the proud owner of a letterbox and a pen. I, too, get inundated with (pre-filled!) applications for loans and credit cards that simply require my signature. And you know what I do with them? I have to shred them so i'm not tempted or so somebody else doesn't apply for that stuff in my name. I have credit limits that have somehow, miraculously, increased all by themselves and i've had to call up / email to get them reduced to resist the temptation of using them and i've got umpteen credit cards (from tarting) that I don't use when paid off because, quite frankly, i don't want £15,000+ of debt from buying crap because when am I ever going to pay that back??

In Liz's case... never.

Carol Vorderman's good with maths? - well, then, that loan MUST be good value for money. David Beckham eats at a fast food restaurant? - Their food MUST be nutritious and healthy. Is it the celebrity's fault for being a role-model and taking on a dubious job for the sake of a couple of grand/million? Is it the company's fault for wanting to sell a product and make a profit? Or is it the government's fault for living in the pockets of industry and making it easier to get into (and, so it would seem, out of) debt? The answer to all of the above is partially YES.

But whose fault is it for buying into it all when they have the personal choice, freedom, opportunity and right to say 'no'?

"Liz's".

I agree with everyone else that these companies need to be reigned back in and held accountable for their own unethical behaviour (if only to give my shredder a rest) but, regardless of whether that day ever arrives, an individual is still responsible and liable for their own actions.

That is why you can't apply for credit until you are legally an adult.

ms_london

dudleyboy wrote:

I feel really sorry for Liz. Fancy being exploited by all those nasty credit card and loan companies and being forced to make all those purchases and take all those luxury holidays overseas on money that wasn't hers and then being expected to pay them back. Have they no shame?!!

Fortunately, with the help of the government, tax payers' money and the sympathetic reporting of the BBC, Liz has been able to put this terrible experience behind her and is no longer expected to repay the £40,000 these immoral people lent to her, or be legally bound my the terms and conditions she agreed to when gladly accepting their kind donations.

Thankfully Liz's story has a happy ending. At 28 she can rebuild her life without any debt whatsoever and is able to hold on to her fond memories, photographs and mementos of her many travels, fun times and the "crazy" people she met.

Why waste your life contributing to society and doing something productive when you can buy shoes and/or travel the world and look at all the wonderful things other people have done? Why try and help those living in poverty with a monthly charitable donation from your salary when you can go visit them yourself, take your own photos of them outside their humble abodes, buy items of clothing they've laboured hours over for a pittance, and then show them to all your friends back at the riding club / bar / restaurant / gym / studio / mall upon your return? why oh why indeed.

Congratulations "Liz". You are a survivor. Life has dealt you a shetty hand but fortunately you've been able to put this horrid experience behind you and, hopefully, it hasn't put you off accepting such financial gifts in the future.

Life is for living, it should be lived to the full and is far too short to worry about what you're buying, how much you're spending and the fact that one day you might be expected to pay it back whether you can afford to or not.

May the rest of us bail you out (through taxation and interest rates) time and again forevermore... and maybe, just maybe, we will one day get to look at your photos, admire your mementos, hear your stories (of which we will never tire) and perhaps even be fortunate enough to learn from your mistakes (despite already having the basic common sense and understanding of the world that you so obviously lack). May your plight not be in vain. If you can reach out and touch just one equally witless, naive, ignorant and/or truely stupid person then those sleepless nights on exotic beaches will not have been for nothing.

Credit card and loan companies - you should be ashamed of yourselves! Fancy expecting people like Liz to behave responsibly when given the ability to buy things. Fancy expecting them to not become alcoholics when they turn 18. Fancy expecting them to not become pregnant when they turn 16. Fancy expecting them to not murder another human being the day they learn how it can be done. People like Liz need to be protected for they are vulnerable and know not what they do.

Liz, and to all those like her, I salute you... with a single and bitter middle finger at the very fact you're allowed to get away with it so easily (most people who commit fraud go to prison) and have the audacity to expect people to feel sympathy/empathy towards you (as well as, no doubt, keeping hold of all the stuff you bought!)

I hope that one day you will have enough money saved for a deposit on a house, which i will most probably end up renting from you as I attempt to pay off my own debts (such as 3 years of car insurance and student loans that i have every intention of repaying) generated by a modest and self-sufficient lifestyle. Oh, wait a moment...

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Sorry, I know this is supposed to be a touchy-feely board but sometimes the truth hurts. That article and people who get into debt for such reasons, only to have their extravagant slates wiped clean for them afterwards, really do get on my tets.

People like "Liz" get off far too easily and not only are we expected to feel sorry for them but we're supposed to be supportive/happy when they're debt free while the rest of us are still struggling to do it solo!! Worst of all, they'll probably grow old happier, healthier and wealthier having had all those relaxing holidays in the sun and absolutely no debt to worry about or pay off!!

Boils my blood it does. Think i'm being harsh? Yeah, I am. Think i'm wrong? Tell me otherwise.

*phew* - God I feel better for that!! - and it didn't cost a bean. Who needs retail therapy?! :rotfl:

I couldnt have put it better myself!!

Am pleased it's not just me that feels like that!! :0)

ms_london

melancholly wrote:

maybe all of us who thought it was a good post are bitter - bitter that we're all trying our best to keep our heads above water and pay all that owe while others act like complete victims and take no personal responsibility for the situation they're in.

I have to agree. I worked SOOOOOO hard to repay my £19,000 of debt - whilst living at home I was earning £11,000 so I moved to London so that I could earn £18,000... It does make me angry that I worked to repay what I had spent, but there are others that do declare themselves bankcrupt and don't have to pay a penny back, or those that post on here asking "If I leave the country, can my creditors trace me or will the debt be wiped off"..

I do appreciate that some people go bankcrupt as it is their only option - and I am not tarring everyone with the same brush.

xx

Reaper

There is something of an inconsistency in that article. At the start she says:

my parents had a bad credit history and that prevented me from getting credit while I lived in their house. I always swore blindly that I would not apply for a credit card. Having seen the trouble that my Dad had gone through with his finances...

but later on she says

In my parents' time if you didn't have the money you went without.

So her parents managed to get a bad credit history without using credit?? I suppose it is possible if you don't pay your utility bills even if you never borrow, but unlikely.

Steevo25

Hi All, this is my first post and have been reading thoroughly this post and others for a considerable amount of time. After reading this I just felt I had to voice an opinion.

I can, and do sympathise with 'Liz' to some extent. Although I am not in a situation anything like hers I can appreciate how easily I could have been. I too have loans etc but fortunately for me they are in a managable state and I caught my frantic spending at an early enough time to sort it out without too many problems. I have no arrears or anyone chasing me for money and my outgoings are now slightly less than my income.

I seriously do think that what happened to 'Liz' IS a type of illness. Not an ilness as in you are sick, but there is always something telling you that you can afford this and everything will be Ok. It is very easy for someone from the outside to say how she was an 'Idiot' when they are not in entirely the same situation. I have been there, done that and got the tee-shirt and wouldn't want to be there again. Incidently, I have never been bankrupt or had defaults against me, but I came very close.

As for getting away with paying nothing, I agree that it is wrong, but in her case how would you get blood from a stone. The important thing for her that she learns lessons from this to stop it happening again. If she hasn't learnt lessons then she in unhelpable.

I certainly do think that the finance/credit card companies do have to share a proportion of the blame. I too get applications come through the post everyday and they go straight in the bin. But I have also had phone calls trying to sell me finance and it is what I would call a 'hard sell', and for someone that has probably never had too much and can now see the world as her oyster I can see how difficult it would be to turn this fantastic offer down, especially as they make it sound so easy. Some people that have called, I have even openly said that I wouldn't be able to afford it but they persist. I can't imagine that at the time anything like what happened would have been going through her mind at all, and the time she realised what trouble she was in, it had already gone past the point of recovery. This is where the survival instinct takes over and you think that by borrowing more money it will change things to such an extent that you will find a way to survive. If she had been refused credit earlier, the same thing would have probably happened but it would have been a lot earlier and for a lot less money and perhaps other things could have been arranged.

There are many people that I know indirectly that have been bankrupt more than once, these are the people that I would call 'Idiots'. The first time you could consider a mistake, but more than once, no one can say they didn't know what they were doing.

It is going to take me another 5 years to get completely back on the straight and narrow, and a few years ago I would buy anything that took my fancy. I didn't see anything wrong with it at the time. The first time it hit me was when one day I put my card in the machine and it wouldn't let me have any money out. Then I realised that I had still had 3 weeks remaining before I got paid. I went straight into panic mode and the first thing that came into my mind was to borrow more money to get me through the month and give me time to sort myself out. This I did ( very easily I might add even though my finances didn't add up, I had people queueing up to lend me money ). I took out the loan and then had a few months of easy living, still not realising where things were leading. To be honest, I couldn't even write down what I had spent money on as I had nothing to show for it. Even now, my car is worth under £1500 and I have no other real assets to show that I had spent enormous amounts of money. It wasn't until Christmas 2004 came and I struggled to buy Christmas presents for my kids that I finally realsied that I had hit rock bottom. This is where I finally decided to sort my life out, more for my family than myself. From that point I sat down and did a budget and finaly conceeded that my outgoings were more than my income. I am an above average wage earner and my debts were totalling well over £100k excluding the mortgage. I cancelled all my non-essential items and put us on a strict budget. Just by doing this I had now got my outgoings down by £400 per month which put my outgoings to just over £100 more than my income. I took another loan out ( yes another one ). To get rid of my credit cards and oevrdraft and then promptly cut up all my credit cards except one ( the one with the lowest credit limit ). This credit card now stays at home in the drawer and really is for emergencies. My income is now £200 per month more than my outgoings.

When I sit and look back and listen to other people's stories, I really can see what they are thinking. I learnt some very tough lessons from this and am determined never to be in that situation again. I also realise how close I came to harming not only my life but my family as well. I would be the first to admit that it was all my fault for being too greedy and thinking that there was nothing I couldn't have. At the time I didn't think like that at all. Now when I look back it all makes me cringe. I consider myself one of the lucky ones and managed to catch myself before the situation wasn't recoverable and I would have been in exactly the same situation as 'Liz'.

For the future I really do hope that she sits back and looks back at what happened, and makes it her life commitment to not let it happen again. I have another 5 years until my finances are more than back on track again with over £700 per month worth of loans finishing. Taking into account pay rises etc etc I should be comfortable. Being how I was has made be go completely the opposite direction. I now justify every single penny I spend. I find my self taking things back out the trolley at the supermarket instead of putting luxuries in. I never look at holiday magazines, we go camping now instead of expensive holidays abroad. I really hope I never revert back to the other way again.

Bunnyinthelights

Thanks Steevo,
You articulated my sentiments.
Bunny

molerat

dudleyboy wrote:

I agree with everyone else that these companies need to be reigned back in and held accountable for their own unethical behaviour (if only to give my shredder a rest).....

The easiest way to give your shredder a rest is to join MPS http://www.mpsonline.org.uk/mpsr/. I don't get credit card apps any more :j

Regarding your first post you are all heart ..... but sooooooo right !!

trevored

I endorse wholeheartedly the views expressed by dudleyboy & his supporters. Clearly he has a grasp on the realities of life.

I am sympathetic to those who find themselves in financial difficulties due to no fault of their own but I haven't yet read any post where the financial wounds can be classed as anything but self-inflicted.

We live in a 'I want', 'I must have', 'why shouldn't I?' society which is fuelled by the ease of credit from Banks, Credit Card & Loan Companies who encourage their greedy rather than needy 'customers' to self indulge. By providing easy means for people to abrogate their responsibilies (bankruptcy) or by making excuses for their actions, we legitimise their irresponsibility.

To those who have accrued debts for whatever reason but who, having acknowledged their problems, are making efforts to repay them, I applaude you.

ManAtHome

I thanked (and agreed with) Dud's post mainly on the grounds of "the meeja's" sucking up to the "oooohh likkle mee has got into probbies coz likkle meee dunno wots wot". If the infamouse Liz had been been a skinhead with tatoos, headlines would have been more like "skanky waster tries to screw the system"... (read back about Uk.meeja.coms response to drug runners in Thailand if you've any doubts).

As for being sanctimonious.. words almost fail me - remember to cheer when CC companies put up their rates or tighten credit checks to cover for the "poor likkle meees" who want to p*ss it up the wall then p*ss off...

Btw - not bitter/twisted/morgaged/over-billed - just brought up with a sense of responsibility!

jesster_2

As someone who's trying to support an OH through a genuine potential BR, I too was really irked by Liz's attitude.

But let's not slam the bbc for choosing HER story to report.

Who's to say they expect us to be sympathetic with her? The bbc has to be seen to be impartial and unbiased, and to let people make up their own minds about a story. But they do get to choose their 'case study' for the article. It would be just as easy, if not easier, to find someone who's gone BR for more genuine reasons. But by choosing someone like Liz the writer's making a point about abuses of the system - and starting our debate - without being seen to make the judgements.