Brown would have had greatness thrust upon him...

econo_2

O.K. maybe a little more paint on the brush than he could have ever got, but.......With all the chastising that is done here of the UK government and being responsible for just about everything, I wondered how many of you would have at least respected Brown if he would have approached this differently?

Personally, I think we face not only a country of ever mounting problems (that this forum highlights on a minute by minute basis) but a politically incapable generation across the party spectrum. Petty Labour or Tory squabbles and rants just don't seem credible anymore.

I appreciate that many Brits now have the attitude that 'anyone but Brown and New Labour will do' (which is entirely understandable) however, out of interest I wonder how many of you would have at least had respect for Brown and what I feel is some long lost and badly needed 'country unity', if at the outset he would have been upfront, honest and straight with the British people?

I know I for one would have thought the man who was about as interesting as the latest BTL story, was actually made of something, if he would have said- we are not going to reward failure. There will be a full criminal investigation into all British banks and their dealings, that all bosses that have been found to have committed criminal acts (financial fraud for one) will be prosecuted to the full extent of British law.

Furthermore, boards should look long and hard at CEO's and the like of failed financial institutions where criminal acts have not taken place for gross mismanagement and that a full investigation into the market system its catastrophic failures and our economic model will also be discussed at the highest levels of the business and educational establishments. A public enquiry will also be undertaken into the financial services sector.

It is also plainly obvious that we need to get back to an economy built on exports/ production and savings not reckless consumption, and I will be tailoring radical changes in fiscal and monetary policy along with large funds for higher educational investments, to encourage and protect these core areas of our economy.

I know the British people are aware this is going to be a very tough and hard period, but with a new emphasis on areas highlighted we will come out of it a far leaner and better equipped nation with a genuinely dynamic and modern economy.

If I would have heard something along these lines I may have come to not only respect him, but actually thought under the global strains, he had a long shot as going down as one who didn't shirk what needed to be done regardless of potential political fallout, rolled his sleeves up and got on with it with some stiff upper lip respect and maybe even admiration coming somewhere down the line.

Sadly, as I awake from my day dream we have had nothing but the complete opposite; all on the push for political re-election!

Rochdale_Pioneers

For all their noise, the Tories wouldn't have done anything differently. The main failings of Brown are:

1. Lack of regulation. See quotes from Redwood to see what the Tory approach would have been
2. A bonus culture in the city driving crazy risk. Which funded donations to the Tory party from so many hedge fund managers

To be fair, the Tories DID raise objections. As recently as last year's party conference!

handful

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

For all their noise, the Tories wouldn't have done anything differently. The main failings of Brown are:

1. Lack of regulation. See quotes from Redwood to see what the Tory approach would have been
2. A bonus culture in the city driving crazy risk. Which funded donations to the Tory party from so many hedge fund managers

To be fair, the Tories DID raise objections. As recently as last year's party conference!

I couldn't disagree more. It's been said many times before, Tory governments always inherit a broken economy and get tarred with being the 'party that cuts jobs and services'. Nobody is denying that there would have been a global credit crunch if the Tories had been in office, but IMHO if they had we would be much better placed to come out of it.

vivatifosi

Brown and Blair lost my respect for the reasons Rochdale highlights, plus these:

1. The Iraq War - we should never have got involved and it cost us a shed load of money. Roll on the release of of minutes.

2. Brown and Blair's crazy spending on crazy schemes. Not only are we in a worse shape financially as a result, but they've cut core services at the same time - my local A&E is about to close - but has been replaced by a flashy brochure on what I should do in an emergency. Phew, those laminated phone numbers will really help me if I have a heart attack.

3. Brown should never, ever have cut the 10% tax rate for low earners. That has added to the misery of many and whatever he says to the contrary, there are a lot of people worse off. This particularly includes women whose husbands are the main breadwinners and are in part time jobs. The family income drops, but not sufficiently enough to get additional government money.

4. How can you respect a leader who is the self-claimed messiah of the world financial bail-out plan yet takes no responsibility for his role in the problems?

I was in the States last week and although people there are faced by some huge problems - foreclosure and the closure of schools to name but two - there was a real sense of optimism as to what Obama could do. Unfortunately I don't sense the same here. Nor, realistically do I see that happening here as even if Cameron comes to power, he will do so without the agenda of hope that Obama brings.

For now though, I'm just fed up of being in the Brown stuff...

Wookster

What Brown also did was ruin pensions and make life harder for savers.

This removes any incentive to plan for the future or to become prudent.

vivatifosi

As a pension fund trustee I can't believe I missed that one. Thanks Wookster!

Rochdale_Pioneers

handful wrote: »

I couldn't disagree more. It's been said many times before, Tory governments always inherit a broken economy and get tarred with being the 'party that cuts jobs and services'. Nobody is denying that there would have been a global credit crunch if the Tories had been in office, but IMHO if they had we would be much better placed to come out of it.

OK then so you disagree with Cameroon, who seems hell-bent on trying to pin the blame for the recession on Brown. As you say, this would have happened whoever was in power, and has swept away governments of left and right regardless of ideology.

Can I ask what specifically you think the Tories would have done differently, where they said so pre-crunch, and what effects these would have had? If there had been a massive convergence in party policies on the economy then I think we would be having some proper debates now. The problem is that both shackled themselves to the market-knows-best approach with the lack of regulation and endless praise of profits however created that goes with it.

And don't say debt as one they would have done differently. Public debt is in a better state than they left it however many times Cameron bleats about us being "the most indebted nation on earth" - it simply isn't true. On personal debt there could be something interesting - would a Conservative chancellor have told the public that cheap and plentiful credit was wrong and would have to be regulated or taxed away? Or that mortgages would have to be tighter regulated to scrap buy-to-let? I can see how such policies were needed - now. What I can't recall is any Conservtaive politician saying any of these things (rather the opposite) nor is there anything in their political ideology to suggest its their natural stomping ground.

So very seriously, what would they have done differently and when did they say so?

Wookster

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

So very seriously, what would they have done differently and when did they say so?

Well for starters government spending wouldn't have ballooned so much and accordingly there would probably be more lattitude for (more) significant spending stimulus packages now.

kennyboy66_2

Wookster wrote: »

Well for starters government spending wouldn't have ballooned so much and accordingly there would probably be more lattitude for (more) significant spending stimulus packages now.

Then I suggest you read the Conservative mainfesto from the last election, where they promised to match Government spending plans.

When did a Conservative government last launch a spending stimulus package in a recession ?
Tories used to be opposed to Keynesian spending - when did this change ?

Rochdale_Pioneers

Wookster wrote: »

Well for starters government spending wouldn't have ballooned so much and accordingly there would probably be more lattitude for (more) significant spending stimulus packages now.

It didn't push debt up significantly though did it? You can't get away from the fact that government debt went into this crisis lower than it was when Ken Clarke stopped being Chancellor.

But OK, less money spent by government. Would that extra revenue saved have been offset against chunky tax cuts? We have seen pronouncements on stuff like IHT that would have cost billions, similarly on fuel tax. Would the state have been better off?

angrypirate

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

For all their noise, the Tories wouldn't have done anything differently. The main failings of Brown are:

1. Lack of regulation. See quotes from Redwood to see what the Tory approach would have been
2. A bonus culture in the city driving crazy risk. Which funded donations to the Tory party from so many hedge fund managers

To be fair, the Tories DID raise objections. As recently as last year's party conference!

Im sure we would be in a recession, but i dont think it would be as bad. Penisons wouldnt have been raided so not as many BTL amateur landlords (smaller housing boom)
National debt would have been a lot smaller (more funds now for support)
The boom would never have gone on so long - it would have ended sooner, not been as big so the recession would have been smaller and not go on for so long. As we have had the mother of all booms, we're now in for the mother of all busts. This will make the recession of the late 70s / early 80s look like a stroll in the park.