Talking down the economy

dad-of-4

mvengemvenge wrote: »

No, I'm afraid it isn't.

Confidence is at the root of only two things in the current climate. One is banking an finance, the other is people's willingness to go out and spend some disposable income on goods in shops and other places.

Many other things affecting people are factual. If you want a loan for a car, you can't get one. No amount of confidence will change your bank manager's mind. If you want a mortgage, you need a much larger deposit than you have recently. No amount of confidence will make your lender give it to you deposit-free. People are losing their jobs (for many this is their first recession), and no amount of confidence will change the dramatic loss of income many people are experiencing, and not all of these people are losing jobs just because their boss has 'lost confidence', usually it's because he/she has no choice.

Personally, I think this enforced return to 'old values' (ie having to save up for things you want) is no bad thing in itself, but for many, many people it is a big culture shock after years of being able to buy things at the drop of a hat.

My personal 'message' to people would not be 'keep being confident', but 're-assess your priorities in life and place less importance on material possessions'.

But hey, that's just me...

nope it's me as well:beer:

SGE1

mvengemvenge wrote: »

No, I'm afraid it isn't.

Confidence is at the root of only two things in the current climate. One is banking an finance, the other is people's willingness to go out and spend some disposable income on goods in shops and other places.

Many other things affecting people are factual. If you want a loan for a car, you can't get one. No amount of confidence will change your bank manager's mind. If you want a mortgage, you need a much larger deposit than you have recently. No amount of confidence will make your lender give it to you deposit-free. People are losing their jobs (for many this is their first recession), and no amount of confidence will change the dramatic loss of income many people are experiencing, and not all of these people are losing jobs just because their boss has 'lost confidence', usually it's because he/she has no choice.

Personally, I think this enforced return to 'old values' (ie having to save up for things you want) is no bad thing in itself, but for many, many people it is a big culture shock after years of being able to buy things at the drop of a hat.

My personal 'message' to people would not be 'keep being confident', but 're-assess your priorities in life and place less importance on material possessions'.

But hey, that's just me...

You misunderstand - ordinary people not being able to access credit is because the banks have so little credit themselves. They have limited funds, and only lend to those with excellent credit ratings. But the reason they have fewer funds than previously is because of a loss of confidence - firstly, consumer confidence, resulting in withdrawals; and secondly, overall industry confidence, ie banks unwilling to lend to each other. That's what I meant.

SGE1

Sapphire wrote: »

What I cannot stomach is that the bankers, even those working for institutions bailed out by the taxpayer, are still earning massive bonuses and pay increases (there's been a lot about this in the Grauniad and ST, for example), instead of being prosecuted for what they've done. Under Callaghan, didn't the main people who had been responsible for the problems at that time get prosecuted? Weren't regulations tightened up after then? Why are those who are getting kicked out of failed financial institutions getting massive pay-offs for bankrupting the country? Why isn't this obscene group of people calling itself the 'government' doing something about bringing in regulation? Why is this 'government' still in power? What will it take???

Word's fail me...

I sympathise with your feelings. If I were to meet a banker (in my imagination, he would be cocky), I would have a short internal debate as to whether I could get away with running up behind him and kicking him in the crotch, or if I should just give him by best indignant dirty look.

The problem is, we're so reliant on the financial services that as soon as we make life too difficult for those that work in the sector, they will ship off elsewhere, and take with them their cash. This will make the UK a far less attractive location for businesses, as well as limit income from taxes. So while giving them a hard time now might provide us all with a bit of immediate satisfaction, I think that in the long run, the damage may be greater.

mvengemvenge

SGE1 wrote: »

You misunderstand - ordinary people not being able to access credit is because the banks have so little credit themselves. They have limited funds, and only lend to those with excellent credit ratings. But the reason they have fewer funds than previously is because of a loss of confidence - firstly, consumer confidence, resulting in withdrawals; and secondly, overall industry confidence, ie banks unwilling to lend to each other. That's what I meant.

I understand - I just thought you were saying that if Joe Public had comfidence, it would all be ok. Just a case of crossed-wires, maybe?

I read a lot of world news, not just what's happening here, and it seems to me that foreign banks/countries are no longer backing UK banks because just about everyone has had their fingers burnt by investment banks and hedge funds. They just don't want to throw good money after bad. I've said on other threads that the question is this - Did we ever actually come out of the recession of the early 90's or is everything that's grown since then part of some giant confidence-built pyramid-selling scheme (involving banking, house prices, etc)?

Looking at Madof in the US, I'm beginning to wonder just how many financiers have been running similar schemes.

SingleSue

I haven't actually changed any of my ways, I was always Mrs Budget head, so I am carrying on as normal...well apart from looking at rude chilli seeds.

mvengemvenge

SingleSue wrote: »

I haven't actually changed any of my ways, I was always Mrs Budget head, so I am carrying on as normal...well apart from looking at rude chilli seeds.

Rude chilli seeds - Do tell;)

I was quite impressed the other day when I saw a news article about the recession where some little local Building Society had stuck to it's beliefs and only leant out what it could cover itself, in good old mutual fashion. Nice to know they didn't all have their heads turned.

SingleSue

I'll send you a pm...that way hopefully this thread won't get pulled too!

mvengemvenge

SingleSue wrote: »

I'll send you a pm...that way hopefully this thread won't get pulled too!

Lol...I'm shocked and stunned...my girlfriend wants some

chucky

mbga9pgf wrote: »

You dont happen to have a large BTL portfolio do you?

you aren't one of those people that was priced out of property by people with more money than you and are obviously angry now?

what's the point of your statement?

scousethife

Im confident!

Confident that Gordon brown and his socialist hippy mates are a bunch of tits who have virtually if not certainly ruined this country.

Apparently though Maggie thatcher would have ruined us all even more and made us all fat and ginger..........said every brainless labour voter.