CCA request responded to - Next Step Pls

Merlinexcalibur

Someone else is already helping you out with this but let's just say Capital One and Debitas (Debitas, if you don't already know IS Capital One trading under another name; it's on the bottom of their letters) but it's unlikely. And, yes, I've had the same ridiculous letters from them as well. But doesn't everyone?

Capital One provided me with what was obviously NOT a credit agreement, and some other things were amiss - if they start getting heavy with me I might even have to show the police what they've supplied me with let alone a court; seeing as Capital One considers it's above UK laws. Anyway.

What mine was was a pre credit application form. Apart from a few other things which it 'wasn't'.

I've scanned the documents but have no idea how to display them on here. Can anyone help please?

I don't know if MSE allows image and not links but upload them to something like Photobucket, then put the link on here.

Merlinexcalibur

They have been calling my friend all week. Because she got this letter today she spoke to them and said shed pay them £15 on Tuesday !!!!!
Where does she stand now?

Please don't think I am telling you what to do - just from experience - but it's never a good idea to speak to them on the phone. And not when dealing with Capital One. I may get into trouble for this but the more vulnerable you are ie ill, have a disability, the more harassment you will get from them. I'm not just saying that.

That's just my advice, because I know exactly what Capital One are like where harassment is concerned. It made me extremely ill until I took proactive action.

Merlinexcalibur

The one thing I can tell you about Capital One is they are not known for replying to ANY written correspondence. I have a money adviser who has been writing to them, and they've been getting the exact same run around I was with them. So, what I am trying to say is they ignore everything. Which may not look favourably on them IF anything went to court. Because you've done everything reasonably to avail them of the situation and they've been as obstructive as they can possibly be without putting a brick wall up or a sign.

Oh, tell your friend not to answer the phone to them. I have read your posts regarding their condition and, I am afraid, they will simply take advantage of this to their own ends. And to put it mildly they do not care. Either block their calls or don't answer.

I don't want to post here what was going on when they phoned me but suffice to say that when they did start their rubbish up again on the phone I was in a serious situation with my health so it was the last straw. Right, I'll go away now.

Norfolk_Jim

RAS wrote: »

Jim

Does the "CCA" list

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following:-

(a) Number of repayments;
(b) Amount of repayments;
(c) Frequency and timing of repayments;
(d) Dates of repayments;
(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

It says;

Credit Limit: The credit limit will be determined by us from time to time under this agreement and notice of it will be given by us to you

Monthly payments: Monthly payments are due by the date stated in the statement a date usually 26 days after the statement date.
The monthly payment is an amount equal to 3.00% of the outstanding balance from time to time shown in your statement, or 5.00 whichever is greater.

APR; 29.2% APR variable (See assumptions under total charge for credit below)

I'll see if I can work out how to use photobucket or something

Cant access Photobucket from work Argh! Filters - Will have to wait till I get home about 6pm - Sorry

Norfolk_Jim

Merlinexcalibur wrote: »

The one thing I can tell you about Capital One is they are not known for replying to ANY written correspondence. I have a money adviser who has been writing to them, and they've been getting the exact same run around I was with them. So, what I am trying to say is they ignore everything. Which may not look favourably on them IF anything went to court. Because you've done everything reasonably to avail them of the situation and they've been as obstructive as they can possibly be without putting a brick wall up or a sign.

Oh, tell your friend not to answer the phone to them. I have read your posts regarding their condition and, I am afraid, they will simply take advantage of this to their own ends. And to put it mildly they do not care. Either block their calls or don't answer.

I don't want to post here what was going on when they phoned me but suffice to say that when they did start their rubbish up again on the phone I was in a serious situation with my health so it was the last straw. Right, I'll go away now.

My friend is somewhat nieve I'm afraid, hence I'm trying to help her. Because she got a letter, just before the call, she talked to them. I've now sent a harrasment complaint for whatever good it'll do.

Merlinexcalibur

I've now sent a harrasment complaint for whatever good it'll do.

Well, it probably won't. But, least you have a paper trail. Which is the important thing.

Norfolk_Jim

I said earlier I'd try to post some images. Here are some links anyway. Not sure if they'll be any good though as I've not done this before

Just click on them and they'll enlarge for you to see

RAS

Jim

I have never seen anything like this.

What I think is happening is that they are trying to pull a fast one; these being the documents that they would send out NOW if your friend applied today and that they are treating her as if she had applied after April 2007.

This is most certainly not a true copy of a CCA.

There is no date showing that this document was published at the time your friend took out the debt and nothing to prove that she even applied for the card.

Can you try posting the links on the CAC site as well.

Just the CCA and the accompanying letter.

Norfolk_Jim

Yes I've put it up on the CAG site as well.

If you look at the small print on the bottom of the T&C page it says that these are the current t&c's not those that applied to the card when it was taken out except APR & total repayable. It does not say when that was though, so they might have been or they might have not been. No way I can tell from this.

Without the dated signature this could apply at any time to anyone.

Norfolk_Jim

I sent them this reply; Appropriate? Its not my words - was given it by another forum member.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX 26/01/09
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXX
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXX
Re: Account Number: XXXXXXXXXX

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;
As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

And more importantly

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

The regulations state:
(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-
(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;
(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.
It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

Yours faithfully