End of final salary pensions - in public sector too?

Andy_L

whitfreak wrote: »

To those who complain about public sector pension, only civil service and MP's pensions are paid directly from taxes to my knowledge (employees contributions are used to pay those currently recieving a pension and any short fall is made up by the departments and tresurary). Local government and alike are funded schemes as in member contributions are added to a large pot of investments which should then cover the schemes liabilities, like private sector schemes work.

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Civil service, teachers, NHS, Armed forces & emergency services are unfunded, ie a pay as you go system. Local gov & MP's are funded schemes. No idea why there is a difference.

countrygirl27

Right OK - so the pensions system will change, so I now revise my question:
how do people think they will change?

And the bit of pension that Ive already built up, that would stay the same, but my pension 'post change' would be calculated differently?

As I say Im no expert but I'm always being told that my scheme (TPS) is one of the best around. So I want to guard it!

ali-t

countrygirl27 wrote: »

(PS If so I'll be really hacked off as its the major benefit of being a teacher.)

there was me thinking the major benefit of being a teacher was finishing work by 3.45 every day and getting lots of holidays :D:D

jem16

ali-t wrote: »

there was me thinking the major benefit of being a teacher was finishing work by 3.45 every day and getting lots of holidays :D:D

Holidays yes - one good thing.

As to 3:45pm finishing - I must be in the wrong teaching post as I never finish at that time. Last Monday and Wednesday I didn't get home till 6:45.

exil

When I was at school we had to run fast to beat the teachers out of the door at 3.45 so I guess things must have changed in 40 years :-)

There are 2 types of public sector schemes

1. Funded by taxation - that is there is no pension fund as such (eg civil service)

these could be phased out due to political pressure. MPs have a scheme like this (I think)

2. Funded in the usual way by contributions from employers and employees (eg universities - which are not strictly speaking public sector though funded largely by taxes)

here the same pressures that apply to private sector schemes apply. Of course the taxpayer partially funds universities which in turn make the employers' contributions to the pension scheme. It could be that the current schemes are eventually abandoned due to the cost of fully funding them, to be replaced by a defined contribution scheme of some sort. Hopefully, after I've retired!

countrygirl27

Its sad to see all the same old prejudices come up against teachers.
If it was as easy as everyone says it is then why aren't the moaners doing it?

I get to school at 745 and I leave at 5 generally, although this can vary, some nights I dont leave til 6 or later, and some nights I leave at half 4 to even it out. And then I work from home for an hour every evening and I work about 3 hours on a Sunday afternoon. And this is a standard week, not when there are reports, exams, an inspection or the school play etc.

Teaching is one of the most stressful professions there is, it is extremely mentally tiring. (Just google stressful professions...)

Yes we do have long holidays and I for one donot work every single day of my holidays, but I do do work in the holidays. It is not until you have worked as a teacher that you can understand the need for holidays for teachers and for pupils alike. In week seven of a seven week term children do not really learn very much as they are too tired, they need a break too.

People seem to be out to bash teachers, and since the recession public sector workers in general. I think thats a shame. The next person who says to me, 'its ok for you your a teacher' .......grrr....

We are people too!

It would be nice if there were more people like the small minority of parents who take the time to thank you.

Anyway rant over.

exil

In any job there are many people who do far more than the job description requires in terms of hours and effort. However there are others who do just enough to avoid being sacked......
Teaching is not easy - I know several teachers who had to give up and start another career - but there are many jobs just as stressful or physically demanding where hours are longer, holidays non-existent and pay minimal and with no chance of a decent pension - think of pub landlords, chefs, shopkeepers, lorry drivers, bus drivers.
Unfortunately the other person's job always seems a cushy one compared to ours.

CLAPTON

The most likely changes to the public sector pensions are to follow the private sector

- closing the final salary schemes... existing members will preserve their current pension rights up to that time

- opening a new defined contributions style pension like the majority of the private sector.

Although it might be true that some public sector scheme are 'funded' the reality is that they are all supported by the tax payers in the case of any shortfalls; plus the fact that they are very expensive

Typical private sector pensions have the company contributing say 4 - 10 % while final salary schemes requires 15-20% of salary.

During times like these (stockmarket collapse etc) members of the final salary schemes are unaffected while members of private schemes suffer a lot.

Many consider this is unfair.

Techno

Yes but chefs, pub landlords, shopkeepers , lorry drivers and bus drivers don't have to go to uni for 4 years first :rolleyes: !! Teaching has got much harder over the years because of the declining moral standards in society generally. I know many teachers who would appreciate the opportunity of teaching (and a lot of children who want to learn) but by the time they have finished 'crowd controlling' the few that don't want to learn and are only there because the pc brigade refuse to allow any discipline whatsoever, there's not much time left for anything else ! Verbal and physical abuse, knives, and the frequent risk that if you do have to discipline a child it's oh so easy to say 'sir or miss 'touched me'' and that's you out on your ear - guilty even if proven innocent :mad: .
So do teachers earn their pay? Do they deserve their final salary pension? You bet they do. (And yes my OH is a teacher - could you guess??)

exil

Not ALL final salary schemes are public sector - they are common, ironically enough, in banks and the financial sector generally .....

I was told when in the civil service that my salary was lower than the average in the private sector for a similar job because of the extra costs of pensions and the fact that my job was 100% secure. Later on I was "privatised".....

My OH is in a job with no pension at all - so I can see both sides of the argument!

"Funded" final salary schemes even in the public sector are indeed affected by stock markets. At some point if the scheme is not fully funded ither (a) the employee will have to pay more in (b) the employer will have to pay more - and if a govt in debt trouble is holding the purse strings it's not a "given" that this will happen or (c) the scheme will have to be closed

Come back in 10 years and I suggest there will be no traditional FS schemes left open to new entrants in either the private or public sectors. The trend has been this way in the US since the 70s, we're just following the same path.