FTB expectations too high?

Sapphire

brummybloke wrote: »

i have highlighted this bit because this is partially the problem.

a 34 year old may not WANT to live in a 1 bed flat, however if that is what is affordable then that is what there is.

30 Years ago it was good enough for a first time buyer and most 'average' wage earners would have been very happy to have the flat but it seems people think they should have more nowdays for being in the same boat people were in 30 years ago?

is it through easy credit and not having to pay in real money that peoples expectations have got so high?

im buying again after i sold late last year, i will be furnishing my new place with stuff picked up at auction most likely as i want decent well made things but cant afford to buy new, i am compromising by seeing if i can pick decent 2nd hand things up which will last.

im no hippy save the world type or some socialist, im a regular bloke who is just getting slightly baffled at peoples ever raising expectations and what they think they should be able to afford despite their income and the cost of better located / sized housing.

I totally agree with you. I've known people in their late twenties and thirties 20 or 30 years ago who bought one-bedroom flats and lived happily in them for years. At the time they bought them there was no 'property market', which so many posters here refer to. Property was a roof over your head and a form of security, that's all. You certainly didn't see many people in their twenties expecting to buy houses – or indeed any property – as their right, or as their sole purpose in life. They were far to busy out enjoying themselves and generally finding out about the world.

The expectations of people in general have changed radically in Brown's 'no more boom and bust' bubble. They have been brainwashed into having far higher expectations than can reasonably be expected to be fulfilled given their means – not just in the area of housing, but in general when it comes to the acquisition of material goods. That's partly why the country's in the mess it's in. :cool:

skap7309

lana22 wrote: »

Please stop putting all us young people in the same category of hard-done-by wingers, because we aren't all the same!

Well said.

Ive gotta say, NONE of my friends moan about what they haven't got. Some rent, some have a mortgage but i honestly never hear anything along the lines of what certain members of the older generation seem to be implying.

daveb975

mbga9pgf wrote: »

Why would I buy joe average property on 50K? I wasnt comparing buying an average house in 1995, I was comparing the typical house I could expect on 50K with a wife that is working as well - and its not a 3 bed semi! Not that you would get one of those for 150K either any more :mad: more like some paper thin walled newbuild flat!

It depends where you live, though, doesn't it?

Where I live, I know lots of people that earn in well in excess of £50k, and would never be able to reasonably afford a £500k 3 bed semi; they would struggle even if it halved in price. This isn't Chelsea, just an average London suburb.

It is different in other areas, though. I saw one of those 'Place in the Sun' type programmes the other day, and it showed a family of four living in a 4 bed detached house, even though the sole earner worked in a garden centre!

Even after this crash, a £50k salary will put you firmly in starter home territory in lots of parts of the SE, but may buy you an above average home elsewhere.

lana22

daveb975 wrote: »

It depends where you live, though, doesn't it?

Where I live, I know lots of people that earn in well in excess of £50k, and would never be able to reasonably afford a £500k 3 bed semi; they would struggle even if it halved in price. This isn't Chelsea, just an average London suburb.

It is different in other areas, though. I saw one of those 'Place in the Sun' type programmes the other day, and it showed a family of four living in a 4 bed detached house, even though the sole earner worked in a garden centre!

Even after this crash, a £50k salary will put you firmly in starter home territory in lots of parts of the SE, but may buy you an above average home elsewhere.

I saw that too! (I'm on nights at the moment and am loving a bit of daytime TV!) I was a bit surprised as the house was in Cheshire which I always thought was fairly expensive?
He was the general manager of the garden centre though, so I'm not sure how much he would have earned.

daveb975

Sapphire wrote: »

I totally agree with you. I've known people in their late twenties and thirties 20 or 30 years ago who bought one-bedroom flats and lived happily in them for years.

This is an important point as well. In my area, a 2 bed flat in the more sought after locations will easily cost as much as a 3 bed semi perhaps 2 miles away.

A lot of people that I know choose to live in flats in the better area, and are quite happy doing so. This is not just people who are 22, either, their ages range up to about 40. That is not to say that they would not prefer a house to a flat, just that they put location above property size.

Graham_Devon

lana22 wrote: »

I don't think that's true at all. I'm 24, I presume I'm in the generation you are talking about?
We bought a house in May 08. We knew house prices were dropping, but for various reasons we still bought.
Our mortgage is now very low (tracker), and if we were interest only, (which we aren't) it would be costing us half the price of renting our previous flat.
We are now overpaying by quite a substantial amount each month.
Our house has 3 bedrooms, and so we shouldn't have to leave it any time soon.
My wages go up substantially every year; my salary will go up by a minimum of £9k next year.
We have no debt barring mortgage and my student loan.
Things aren't all doom and gloom for anyone who is young, we should own our house outright in far, far less than 25 years, regardless of what the house costs then. If it costs lots less than we bought it for, and we want to buy a different house, then that house will also have decreased in value!
I don't understand why people think they deserve to make money on their houses. That's not how life works. You buy something at a particular price, you then pay that price and you don't complain about it, because you made the decision to do so.
I work a ridiculous number of hours per week, some weeks more than 2 full time jobs (no overtime) so it's not like I don't work hard for my money. I actually don't get paid all that well all things considered. But I appreciate what I've got - it's a lot less hard than it was when I was a student.

Please stop putting all us young people in the same category of hard-done-by wingers, because we aren't all the same!

That's fair enough and maybe I should have said 'some' of my generation.

I think, as has been said, a lot of it does depend on where you live and, ultimately, like with anything, your life itself.

I know one person who wouldnt have a clue what I was on about. He owns a house up north and paid it all off in 2 years, a 150k house. Though he never has known what I'm on about and would, if he knew, come on here and say the same as you but with a lot more 'what the hell you on about, its easy'.

However, he didnt pay for any moving costs, legal or otherwise, he had an inhertance at 21 of £90,000 and his parents paid a 50% deposit for him!

So I think it does depend on various factors. However, I do believe that wage rises of 9k a year and the easiness you describe, buying 3 bed houses at 24 years old, is not something felt throughout the country. Some people obviously will, but I think they will be in the minority.

You say your mortgage is now very low? But you bought in May 2008? A 3 bed?

Would be interesting to know where you live / how much you paid. A standard average 3 bedroom property then would have been around £180,000....a total of around £950 each month on a 4% repayment. Where I live, that same standard house would be £220-280k.

Not something I would call low!

chucky

daveb975 wrote: »

It depends where you live, though, doesn't it?

Where I live, I know lots of people that earn in well in excess of £50k, and would never be able to reasonably afford a £500k 3 bed semi; they would struggle even if it halved in price. This isn't Chelsea, just an average London suburb.

It is different in other areas, though. I saw one of those 'Place in the Sun' type programmes the other day, and it showed a family of four living in a 4 bed detached house, even though the sole earner worked in a garden centre!

Even after this crash, a £50k salary will put you firmly in starter home territory in lots of parts of the SE, but may buy you an above average home elsewhere.

that's because many people are blinded by average price drops.

just because property may drop 30% in one area it may only drop 5% in another area.

there are going to be many disappointed FTBs when the time comes to go and find that bargain property that they're expecting to find wjhen they're expecting the vendor to accept a massive price drop.

lana22

Graham_Devon wrote: »

That's fair enough and maybe I should have said 'some' of my generation.

I think, as has been said, a lot of it does depend on where you live and, ultimately, like with anything, your life itself.

I know one person who wouldnt have a clue what I was on about. He owns a house up north and paid it all off in 2 years, a 150k house. Though he never has known what I'm on about and would, if he knew, come on here and say the same as you but with a lot more 'what the hell you on about, its easy'.

However, he didnt pay for any moving costs, legal or otherwise, he had an inhertance at 21 of £90,000 and his parents paid a 50% deposit for him!

So I think it does depend on various factors. However, I do believe that wage rises of 9k a year and the easiness you describe, buying 3 bed houses at 24 years old, is not something felt throughout the country. Some people obviously will, but I think they will be in the minority.

You say your mortgage is now very low? But you bought in May 2008? A 3 bed?

Would be interesting to know where you live / how much you paid. A standard average 3 bedroom property then would have been around £180,000....a total of around £950 each month on a 4% repayment. Where I live, that same standard house would be £220-280k.

Not something I would call low!

I didn't describe it as easy!

I get wage rises of 9k per year because of the profession I chose. But I don't get paid particularly well at the moment (for the amount of training I have). I can assure you, it's not an easy life and I have made a hell of a lot of sacrifices for the job I do. We were 23 when we bought the house.
I didn't inherit anything, and had to pay all mortgage costs and moving fees. Please don't imply that people who own a house at a young age got it all on a plate, because it simply isn't true. Especially as I work 80 hour weeks some weeks. For instance this week I am working 13 hour nights every night from Monday to Sunday. This is not overtime, it's my standard hours. I don't get next week off either.

We live in Aylesbury, not some where cheap up north. Commutable to London (which is what my partner does).
We paid £140k for the house, and had £25k deposit.
To be fair I only contributed £8k to the deposit (as I have been at university for 6 years until this year), and my partner contributed the other £17k, built up over 6 years working. (just under 3k a year, not that hard to do).

Our mortgage is a tracker at +0.69%.

Graham_Devon

lana22 wrote: »

I get wage rises of 9k per year because of the profession I chose. But I don't get paid particularly well at the moment (for the amount of training I have) We were 23 when we bought the house.
I didn't inherit anything, and had to pay all mortgage costs and moving fees. Please don't imply that people who own a house at a young age got it all on a plate, because it simply isn't true. Especially as I work 80 hour weeks some weeks. For instance this week I am working 13 hour nights every night from Monday to Sunday. This is not overtime, it's my standard hours. I don't get next week off either.

We live in Aylesbury, not some where cheap up north. Commutable to London (which is what my partner does).
We paid £140k for the house, and had £25k deposit.
To be fair I only contributed £8k to the deposit (as I have been at university for 6 years until this year), and my partner contributed the other £17k, built up over 6 years working. (just under 3k a year, not that hard to do).

Our mortgage is a tracker at +0.69%.

I'm not implying anything, I said "one person I know".

However, like I said, theres not many people who get 9k per year wage rises. It's great that you do and I wish you all the best, I'm not knocking working, I'm self employed myself and always looking to do more.

But your circumstances, the wage rise of 9k per year, the tracker at 0.69% (hardly anyone has these, you were one of the (I think 20,000 people?) who are on one of these mortgages where the bank could pay you.

I'm not knocking you at all, I'm just saying your situation is not typical or indeed average. Neither is mine really as I'm able to afford to run my home on my own and I got no help either, so I'm kind of in the same boat, but I can see that it's not typical of the average person.

lana22

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I'm not implying anything

However, like I said, theres not many people who get 9k per year wage rises. It's great that you do and I wish you all the best, I'm not knocking working, I'm self employed myself and always looking to do more.

But your circumstances, the wage rise of 9k per year, the tracker at 0.69% (hardly anyone has these, you were one of the (I think 20,000 people?) who are on one of these mortgages where the bank could pay you.

I'm not knocking you at all, I'm just saying your situation is not typical or indeed average. Neither is mine really as I'm able to afford to run my home on my own and I got no help either, so I'm kind of in the same boat, but I can see that it's not typical of the average person.

I think our tracker has a collar on it below 2%, so sadly I don't think the bank can pay us! It's BOE + 0.69%, not 0.69%, so 2.69% at present, sorry didn't make myself clear. That sort of mortgage was pretty easy to get last year.

Even if my wages didn't go up we would still be fine. So basically 2 people earning pretty average wages who can afford a 3 bed house in the South East. Can't be that unusual! I know we wouldn't be able to afford St Albans or whatever, but Aylesbury suits me fine!