CSA and the bailiffs...

blimey40

The liklihood is they will simply turn up and be told to get lost. I don't live there and never have, the CSA need to do there homework. Cannot believe the liability order will be sanctioned to that address. I know its reconigtion of the debt only, and I'm lucky the letters are being passed on.

They only have to look at previous records from many years ago where I told them where I had moved to. I guess, thats too much hard work.
I've paid my daughter personally so am not going to bend over backwards to help them, they have all the records on file.

Sunsh1ne

Based on what the OPs told us I'd suggest the following..

You urgently need another account breakdown. The CSA should provide this but may take some time to sort it out if you just ring up. You should call them first and see what they can tell you about the dates and amounts of your arrears over the phone. Then if you're still not happy contact your M.P. They will write to the CSA on your behalf and this will speed things up considerably. In fact, if you show your M.P the documents you already have and they may well request that the CSA place all enforcement on hold whilst the matter is investigated. The CSA take M.P complaints seriously and will often agree to such requests.

Secondly, I'd suggest paying as much as you can on a regular basis until the whole thing is cleared up. This will show your good faith and make it easier for you to be taken seriously by both the CSA and the bailiffs. I just checked and you can pay Marstons online if you know your reference number. At least that way you won't have to speak to that bullying bailiff again. You're also wise to put something in writing to the bailiffs, that way your position and any offer to pay is crystal clear. IMHO the bailiff is less likely to visit you if he can see your already making regular payments.

In the event that the CSA provide a breakdown that shows your debt is now owed post 13 July 2000 I suggest getting some legal advise as you may have grounds to appeal the order on a point of law. The CSA should (typically) only apply for debt post 13/07/2000 and earlier debt is not presently enforcable through the courts.

If you could prove that the CSA had deliberately redone the accounts to move out of statute arrears into the statute period you would have a strong case to overturn the LO. I have never known this to happen though so there may actually be another more mundane explanation. It could be as simple as human error on the part of an accounts officer or a c*ck up with the I.T.

Also if the case is still open see if you ex partner is willing to write to the CSA and close it. This will stop you running up any further arrears which will certainly be enforceable through the courts. I believe all parents with care can now choose to close their cases regardless of whether they claim state benefits or not.

If all else fails and the bailiffs do come round the links provided by pd001 are all decent. I would also suggest the CAB if you want to speak with someone face to face.

btw Just out of interest why do you feel that you can only afford £100 pcm for repayments? Did you mean to write that you earn £300 per month rather than £300 per week? I'd expect someone netting over £1200 per month to be able to find a bit more than the £100 per month if I was a bailiff!

Smart_Mart

Hi Sunshine and thanks for taking the time and trouble with your reply....:T

Taking your last point first, I earn £300 a week and that's from self-employment and is a gross figure before tax. I also have two younger children ( twins of eight ) who I am up-to-date with and paying regularly for. My rent on this place is £150 a week though that only went up last month so I'm looking for somewhere else much cheaper...:rolleyes:

I rang the CSA on Thursday night and they're sending me a full breakdown of my arrears liability and what years it applies to. The original breakdown they sent me in August 2007 showed total arrears of £4.1k but with £1.3k having been paid. Of that £4.1k, more than £3.1k was from pre-July 2000. When I spoke to them this week, they said everything before July 2000 was marked as paid. I certainly haven't paid more than £3.1k in the last sixteen months...:mad: . If I didn't know better, I'd suggest they've moved the goalposts...

I'll start repaying in two weeks time when I get a payment from one of my bigger customers; as you say, this will show goodwill in repaying the bill. I have sent a letter to Marstons, copied to the CSA, informing them that I won't be allowing them peaceful entry.

When the CSA send the breakdown, I'll see how it looks but if it mysteriously shows no arrears pre-July 2000 when I also have it in writing that I DO owe £3.1k from then, I will contact my MP and / or others. I'm on good terms with the PWC in this case so might get her to write and close it. I thought it had gone too far for that but I'll see what she says and put it to the CSA.

Thanks once again for all your help

Martin

Sunsh1ne wrote: »

Based on what the OPs told us I'd suggest the following..

You urgently need another account breakdown. The CSA should provide this but may take some time to sort it out if you just ring up. You should call them first and see what they can tell you about the dates and amounts of your arrears over the phone. Then if you're still not happy contact your M.P. They will write to the CSA on your behalf and this will speed things up considerably. In fact, if you show your M.P the documents you already have and they may well request that the CSA place all enforcement on hold whilst the matter is investigated. The CSA take M.P complaints seriously and will often agree to such requests.

Secondly, I'd suggest paying as much as you can on a regular basis until the whole thing is cleared up. This will show your good faith and make it easier for you to be taken seriously by both the CSA and the bailiffs. I just checked and you can pay Marstons online if you know your reference number. At least that way you won't have to speak to that bullying bailiff again. You're also wise to put something in writing to the bailiffs, that way your position and any offer to pay is crystal clear. IMHO the bailiff is less likely to visit you if he can see your already making regular payments.

In the event that the CSA provide a breakdown that shows your debt is now owed post 13 July 2000 I suggest getting some legal advise as you may have grounds to appeal the order on a point of law. The CSA should (typically) only apply for debt post 13/07/2000 and earlier debt is not presently enforcable through the courts.

If you could prove that the CSA had deliberately redone the accounts to move out of statute arrears into the statute period you would have a strong case to overturn the LO. I have never known this to happen though so there may actually be another more mundane explanation. It could be as simple as human error on the part of an accounts officer or a c*ck up with the I.T.

Also if the case is still open see if you ex partner is willing to write to the CSA and close it. This will stop you running up any further arrears which will certainly be enforceable through the courts. I believe all parents with care can now choose to close their cases regardless of whether they claim state benefits or not.

If all else fails and the bailiffs do come round the links provided by pd001 are all decent. I would also suggest the CAB if you want to speak with someone face to face.

btw Just out of interest why do you feel that you can only afford £100 pcm for repayments? Did you mean to write that you earn £300 per month rather than £300 per week? I'd expect someone netting over £1200 per month to be able to find a bit more than the £100 per month if I was a bailiff!

mothballed

blimey40 wrote: »

The liklihood is they will simply turn up and be told to get lost. I don't live there and never have, the CSA need to do there homework.

If a debtor is unavailable theres not alot a bailiff can do. I had a live-in farm employee getting court fines and parking tickets, I told all his bailiffs he did not live here and the bailiffs just walk away.

Sunsh1ne

You make a very good point mothballed and a debtor who is never seen or spoken to will obviously never pay up. That said some bailiffs are more persistant than others. It very much depends on the value of a debt, where a person lives and how much the bailiff knows about the debtors circumstances and assets. In the OPs case he has already responded to the bailiff and that could well encourage future visits. As I said before, it's good to see he's now sent some particular letters to try and stop this from happening.

Many debtors seem to think that they are best off avoiding the CSA's bailiffs altogether (and this may often be true) but it can sometimes be worthwhile dealing with Marstons. Providing a person takes care to understand their legal rights and is not bullied, bailiffs can sometimes be more flexible than the CSA . I know of instances where a bailiff excepted a repayment agreement that the agency had already dismissed as too low (due to its half baked two year debt steer).

Not all bailiffs are out and out barstewards, but they all work for commission and will obviously go for lump sums where they can as this is what feeds their own families.

The irony is that the worst cases (from an NRP's point of view) are often where a debtor sucessfully avoids the bailiffs, but is then unstuck by later CSA action. This is especially true for those with other assets like property. Enforcement action seldom stops because the bailiff hands the case back to the CSA, and actually escalates in most cases.

The golden rule is always to respond and deal with any "arrears" asap and before court action is begun, or if at all possible don't let them buld up in the first place!

This may sound preachy but I have little time for some NRPs on some CSA boards who want advise on debt avoidance when their predicament and arrears are largely of their own making.

mothballed

Sunsh1ne wrote: »

You make a very good point mothballed and a debtor who is never seen or spoken to will obviously never pay up. That said some bailiffs are more persistant than others.

I dont know if its a misconception about bailiffs, there is an image they are burly men in in black suits wealding sledge hammers. When I was approached they were polite and left the farm when I asked.

An educated bailiff will know a farmer can legally order him off off farm, I can even remove his vehicle with a forklift if I wanted to. Ive never been close to that.

mothballed

Sunsh1ne wrote: »

I have little time for some NRPs on some CSA boards who want advise on debt avoidance when their predicament and arrears are largely of their own making.

I think you mean debt evasion.

Debt avoidance is not unlawful because I could quite legally just move to France and the CSA's case comes to a dead-end. Under French child maintenance laws, only absent parents are liable, as I am an excluded parent the law does not provide for any maintenance at all.

Smart_Mart

Thanks be to all who helped me in this matter.:T

The bailiffs came around once more when I was at work and put a final notice through the door. It stated that next time they'd be back, they would remove the goods and sell them.

I rang the CSA several times over the next few days and was passed from pillar to post. Not one of them took responsibility for the hassle. I received my requested account breakdown yesterday and it showed the amounts owed. Suffice to say that the pre-July 2000 amount was still there in black-and-white. I called again today and spoke to one of the most helpful women I've ever spoken to, nothing was too much trouble. She went digging deep and found out there had been an error on their part. Apparently she said I don't owe £2,800 but more likely around £300...:j :beer:

Unbelievable. Lesser strong people than me might have either paid up or, worse case scenario, topped themselves. The CSA have a lot to answer for...it has good people in there but the system is screwed good and proper.

She'll be sending the new amount through next week and they have withdrawn the case from the bailiffs. No more visits...:T :j

Herbie21

This is great news....do keep us all posted..

.

Sunsh1ne

Thanks for the update, I was wondering how you were getting on. It's great to hear you got it sorted out and no longer have the bailiffs on your back.

:T