Past Recessions - what were your experiences?

neverdespairgirl

clobber wrote: »

I don't know anyone who will confess to voting for her, but someone must have done.
.

First general election I voted in was 1997, when I was 20.

My parents both voted Tory in 1979, 1983, 1987, and 1992.

neverdespairgirl

fc123 wrote: »

My OH felt this way when he went deaf 4 years ago......he couldn't function....he tried...but it's hard when you can't hear decipher anything properly....people think you are thick instead.

Did he recover his hearing, or was it a permanent loss?

My Dad's older brother has very poor hearing, and also is blind in one eye. It really cuts him off from easy interaction with other people, i think - in his case, it was childhood problems (complications from measles, I think).

neverdespairgirl

fc123 wrote: »

Mind you, teen daughter feels her life is empty as she doesn't own a pair of GHD's.

I'm sure her hair is gorgeous as it is.

<rant time>

I wish women would, in general, leave their hair alone more. To my mind, the nicest hair is in good condition, shiny, and healthy, which generally means not loaded down with hair "products" and messed about with hot gadgets. Wash it from time to time, brush it once in a while, and it looks so much better than when it's endlessly mucked about with.

neverdespairgirl

Coolfonz wrote: »

In no way were miners greedy. You had face workers on pittances. She started 30 years of insane political ideology masquerading as economics, carried on by Labour. And this is what weve got...

I don't think that the strike was about pay. The miners were offered, and accepted, a 9.3% pay rise in 1982.

the NUM says it wasn't about pay either:

The strike had not been about wages, better conditions or any material gain. It had been waged on principle; the principle that miners' jobs were held by each generation of workers in trust for those who would come after them, and must not be wantonly destroyed.

In 1984, the Coal Board decided to close 20-odd pits that were losing money hand over fist, and that prompted the strike. Scargill called the strike in early March 1984, which wasn't the best time of year, and coal stocks were extremely high. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I reckon.

the TUC didn't support the NUM, neither did the National Association of Colliery Overmen, Deputies and Shotfirers, which probably helped defeat the strike.

Nor do I think the miners were particularly poorly paid. The TUC website says:

After a period of relative stability in the Second World War and the early post-war period, the British coal industry (nationalised in 1947) underwent a massive contraction from 700,000 employed in 1957 to 300,000 by 1970, as alternative fuels were used to produce energy. The two highly successful national strikes of 1972 and 1974 then catapulted the miners up the pay league, and the international oil crisis of late 1973 made coal an attractive proposition once again for electricity generation.

http://www.unionhistory.info/timeline/1960_2000_Narr_Display_2.php?Where=NarTitle+contains+%27The+1984-85+Miners+Strike%27+

"Catapulted up the pay league" doesn't sound that bad.

the National Union of Mine Workers (the NUM) says on their site:

The five-day week was won at last in the famous Agreement of 1947, while miners' wages began to rise steadily, by 1950, they were at the top of the industrial wages league, in startling contrast to the starvation pay of pre-war private enterprise.

the NUM's website also says that in 1971, that pay-rates were:

The conference decided to demand pay rises of £5 per week for coal face workers (then earning £30), £9 per week for underground workers (earning £19) and £6 per week for surface workers (who were earning £18).

http://www.num.org.uk/?p=history&c=num&h=11

In today's terms, those earnings are:

In 2007, £30 0s 0d from 1971 is worth

£334.37 using the retail price index
£605.82 using average earnings.

That's hardly a "pittance" is it?!?

After the 1972 strikes, the coal face earnings went up to £30.50 a week.

neverdespairgirl

milliemonster wrote: »

Why won't they shop there? what's wrong with aldi and lidl, am I missing something?,

In our case, we won't shop in either because there isn't a branch any where near us. Can't see the snob value, though, I couldn't care less what other people think of my shopping bags.

One of OH's best mates works for Lidl - he started in Wimbledon, then went to Norway, then Belgium, and is now in Germany.

neverdespairgirl

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

That was global - we had the 3 day week (you only got paid for 3 days and had to go and sign on every week to get a day or two's benefit - it was paid in cash too, so you had to collect it). The electricity workers imposed and over time ban, then the miners did the same, we had rolling power cuts - no unecessary lighting, Christmas lights etc, the miners finally went on strike in early 1974.

If you were lucky you were on the same part of the national grid as a hospital or fire station - most people weren't though.
1/2 a million people lost their jobs during that winter (73/74), oh, and house prices fell too.

My mtoher was talking about that - she worked in a boarding school that was bang next to a hospital, so they didn't get the rolling power cuts, as they were on the same network.

neverdespairgirl

fc123 wrote: »

He said we had tins in case of nuclear war...I never knew when I was a kid that that was the reason for tins in the cellar...and bottled fruit in kilner jars that my mother made.

He told me Xmas day he has stocked up the cellar again......

When OH and his brother cleared out their grandparents' flat in Jerusalem, they found about a 2 year supply of tinned and dry food. Having been through the war in Poland as Jews, they were determined never to be caught without food again.

John_Pierpoint

Worry about nuclear war got really stoked up by the "Cuban missile crisis", which produced bomb shelters all over cities like New York. (possibly never having been bombed on their own soil, our American cousins tend to have little "bottle", when facing such physical violence).

"The War Game", a pseudo documentary banned by the BBC, as it was obviously too worrying to be shown to the proletariat, or more likely too embarrassing to the government, which had not been telling the people the truth - sounds familiar? . (I saw it at the National Film Theatre and thought it a bit of a joke in its understatement of the effects. There were still leaves on the trees and grass in the fields as a society, with only minor casualties, set out with stirrup pumps to put out the fires.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_Game

The pathetic reality of "Protect and Survive" was captured best by Raymond Briggs in his satire "Where the wind blows":
http://hqinfo.blogspot.com/2008/11/archive-raymond-briggs-where-wind-blows.html

I would recommend this book to students of the reality of living on the "unsinkable aircraft carrier" - interestingly, judging by the prices it now commands, it must be something of a cult book:
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/qwork/7120583/used/War%20plan%20UK%20%3A%20the%20truth%20about%20civil%20defence%20in%20Britain

Do we really think that as the "Middle Eastern" religiously inspired states get "the bomb" and technology makes the ruck sack a plausible delivery mechanism, life is now less dangerous than it was in the 1960's ?

Happy Christmas one and all.

[Deleted User]

I am very worried too about the uk. We have hardly any way of getting back on track as our income was/is mostly generated from the financial and service sectors. Our manufacturing base is now very small and much of it is foreign owned. We are very massively in debt, we pay out billions in benefits, 1/3 of employees are employed in the public services sector with guaranteed income and pensions. Where on earth will the money come from to get back on an even keel? Well I can`t see it and I am very frightened for our children and grandchildren

This recession is no way like the past recessions, it is much worse and is heading for a deep depression ie a big hole that is almost impossible to climb out of

Paulgonnabedebtfree

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

I can remember the last recessions going back to the 1970's. I was 19 in 1973 when OPEC imposed an oil embargo on those countries that supported Israel during the Yom Kippur war.
That was global - we had the 3 day week (you only got paid for 3 days and had to go and sign on every week to get a day or two's benefit - it was paid in cash too, so you had to collect it). The electricity workers imposed and over time ban, then the miners did the same, we had rolling power cuts - no unecessary lighting, Christmas lights etc, the miners finally went on strike in early 1974.
We had food shortages, I remember queueing for bread and sugar. Candles cost a fortune (supply and demand?).

Offices and shops were unheated and it was a cold winter. Petrol shot up in price - you queued to get any - petrol stations ran out frequently. There was a 50mph speed limit introduced on motorways and other roads.

It was a rough time, there were shortages and deprivation for most people, obviously essential services carried on working full time and hospitals did not have power cuts. If you were lucky you were on the same part of the national grid as a hospital or fire station - most people weren't though.
1/2 a million people lost their jobs during that winter (73/74), oh, and house prices fell too.

What followed in terms of recessions did not have the impact of the early 1970's, during the 1980's and 1990's it was financial, there were job losses and falling house prices, failing businesses and loss of manufacturing, but there were no shortages, you could go out and have a meal or go to the cinema if you wanted - the lights stayed on.

The 1970's was the worst I have experienced, most people had less money because of the 3 day week and along with the shortages and power cuts it was not a pleasant time, the fact that it was through the winter made it a lot worse ofcourse.

It's strange how things affect you, I always keep a box of candles in the cupboard under the sink in the kitchen - there was nothing worse than having a power cut and no form of lighting, just sitting in the dark. Sad, eh?

It was pretty grim back then. I know it's wrong but a few of us used to sneak into the school during the holidays to steal the coal to get warm indoors. There were parents there doing the same. Yes it's wrong. I'm referring to normally honest, law abiding people who lived in single glazed, metal framed houses who had no coal, no central heating, and no paraffin for warmth. It makes mr wonder what could happen if food and water supplies were ever to become seriously disrupted.