Council Jobs to Go -10% Staff Saving Needed

nickmason

macaque wrote: »

To one extent or another, the spending in all local councils is out of control. They have gone on a wild spending binge over the past 10 years and it is undermining the economy.

Okay - I tried to meet you halfway, allowing space for our different experiences. You insist on 100% generalisations. I repeat; NDDC has not gone on a wild spending binge over the past 10 years. Quite the opposite - we have had to cut services.

macaque wrote: »

Taxing amenities like public car parks to fund council services is wrong.

Not sure of the validity of this philosophical point - presumably you mean that if the government continues to underfund our obligations, we should breach the law and not provide statutory services rather than making up the shortfall through charges?

In any event, CAB is not a council service. It is a charity. However it relies on council funding. You might have problems with this - indeed I have a major problem with how charities have had to pick up the slack on what most people think are government responsibilities.

However given that this country appears to be going to hell in a handcart, I suggest pulling the plug on CAB now would be very foolish. In fact, we have some relatively robust analysis that to do so would cost more locally, as the immediate port of call would probably be the untrained-for-CAB local council.

macaque wrote: »

It damages business and distorts the economy.
You even acknowledge that shop keepers will suffer.

Yes, increased transaction costs will reduce demand and so damage business - but the effects can be marginal. Of course in some areas parking charges could be taken too far and the disincentive generated could be genuinely punitive to local business. But that doesn't mean it's the case everywhere.

Distortion of the economy happens everywhere.

Yes, I even acknowledge that shop keepers will suffer. Because I'm being honest about the fact that things need to be funded, and that are concomitant costs. Would you rather I came over all Canute-like and denied the reality?

macaque wrote: »

Getting involved might OK for getting a new zebra crossings but there is absolutely nothing that an idividual can do about the big issues. The vested interests of local councils are so strong that even governments dare not challenge them (as we have seen with education).

Like many I feel that we are currently very poorly governed. The power of the central government and public sector employees has gone too far. Over the past 10 years, democracy and civil rights have been undermined as never before.

Oh, don't get me started on this - nice to see the police apologising today, though:rolleyes:

macaque wrote: »

Like many others I am thinking about shifting my business abroad.

I don't blame you. I just hope we can change things before you do.

baby_boomer

Councils charging up to £141 per Council Taxpayer to fund the £35bn deficit in local authority final salary pension schemes - Telegraph

For how much longer will those without the security of such schemes put up with this enforced largesse?

Oblivion

baby_boomer wrote: »

Councils charging up to £141 per Council Taxpayer to fund the £35bn deficit in local authority final salary pension schemes - Telegraph

For how much longer will those without the security of such schemes put up with this enforced largesse?

For as long as society's screw-ups need appropriately trained, dedicated, qualified and professional people to keep them in the manner to which they've become accustomed ....... probably forever. It's a sad world.

Dave.

olly300

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Only joshin' about ALL LA work (I'm sure there are lots of efficient & hardworking staff) - it just that...examples from last few weeks -

a) I tried several times to contact rates authority on Friday - phone kept ringing - no response. Eventually resorted to mail.
b) road works have added 30 mins to my and many others journey in to work for last 2 weeks. No sign of any workers at all. Seem to be renovating bits of the pavements which I assume it's a council job. Why don't they do like in US and work overnight on maintenabce for main roads?
c) 18 months ago, LA 'invested' in road calming measures round our way. Now they are removing them all. Presumably the 2006/7 sleeping policeman budget was u/spent?
d) bin service has gone downhill. No gardening waste collected anymore (unless you pay extra) - sure that's ecofriendly with dozens of householders now queueing at refuse tips with car engines chugging away.
e) public sector absence through sickness has been consistantly higher (+50%) than private sector for years'n'years. Why?

a. Some council departments consist of part-time staff, temps or are simply understaffed. To know which contact one of your local councillors by email (https://www.theyworkforyou.com) and ask them if there is a problem in that particular department.

b The road works done for most councils are outsourced to private contractors. If the contractors are inefficient then contact your council online and put in a complaint.

I know from recent works done in my area which involved the Thames Water coordinating with the council some of the issues over the slowness of the work were to do with timetabling by Thames Water. They booked in to get the heavy equipment later than they needed as they didn't know the operation would run so smoothly.

c. Simply because the traffic calming measures haven't worked.

I lived on a road where in the space of 5 years they tried 3 different traffic calming measures to slow motorists down outside a school I went to. In the end narrowing a bit of the road in front of the school coupled with the increased number of cars parked on both sides slowed cars down.

d. If you have a problem with your local collections, which should be outsourced to a private company, then go online and put in a complaint. If it continues then contact one of your local councillors. You should have 3 per ward.

Councils are under pressure to decrease the rate of rubbish going to landfill. They are not under pressure to collect green waste because that is not collected with ordinary rubbish for landfill. If you complain to your local council they will just point you to their own line pages about composting and if you lucky about getting a cheap compost bin.

e. Depending where you are you will find lots of council departments are mainly staffed by temps or the entire department is outsourced to a private company like refuse collection and recycling. The few staff they have are either the top people or do hard stuff like social work. Now anything dealing with difficult and often violent members of the public is likely to be make you ill.

macaque_2

nickmason wrote: »

Okay - I tried to meet you halfway, allowing space for our different experiences. You insist on 100% generalisations. I repeat; NDDC has not gone on a wild spending binge over the past 10 years. Quite the opposite - we have had to cut services.
Not sure of the validity of this philosophical point - presumably you mean that if the government continues to underfund our obligations, we should breach the law and not provide statutory services rather than making up the shortfall through charges?
In any event, CAB is not a council service. It is a charity. However it relies on council funding. You might have problems with this - indeed I have a major problem with how charities have had to pick up the slack on what most people think are government responsibilities.
However given that this country appears to be going to hell in a handcart, I suggest pulling the plug on CAB now would be very foolish. In fact, we have some relatively robust analysis that to do so would cost more locally, as the immediate port of call would probably be the untrained-for-CAB local council.

Yes, increased transaction costs will reduce demand and so damage business - but the effects can be marginal. Of course in some areas parking charges could be taken too far and the disincentive generated could be genuinely punitive to local business. But that doesn't mean it's the case everywhere.

Distortion of the economy happens everywhere.

Yes, I even acknowledge that shop keepers will suffer. Because I'm being honest about the fact that things need to be funded, and that are concomitant costs. Would you rather I came over all Canute-like and denied the reality?
Oh, don't get me started on this - nice to see the police apologising today, though:rolleyes:
I don't blame you. I just hope we can change things before you do.

You assume that the truth lies half way between us. I cannot agree with that. Public servants have no idea how profoundly detached they have become from the real world. Public sector employees spend their days inventing new jobs for tasks they have failed to do themselves. When the 'buck chain' gets too long, they bring in contractors to complete the work. Councils are perfect employers ................ at our expense. A bout of flu for a council worker is grounds for 3 months convalesence and a sprained ankle is early retirement on full pay. Qualifications for senior management is an ability to read your name on the oak paneled door plus an HND in PC.

And don't get me started on charities. If Napoleon were alive today he would be running Oxfam.

beingjdc

macaque wrote: »

You assume that the truth lies half way between us. I cannot agree with that. Public servants have no idea how profoundly detached they have become from the real world. Public sector employees spend their days inventing new jobs for tasks they have failed to do themselves. When the 'buck chain' gets too long, they bring in contractors to complete the work. Councils are perfect employers ................ at our expense. A bout of flu for a council worker is grounds for 3 months convalesence and a sprained ankle is early retirement on full pay. Qualifications for senior management is an ability to read your name on the oak paneled door plus an HND in PC.

The thing is, all of this is a fiction. I mean literally not a single thing you've said there is true, so what's the point?

It's not true about job chains - councils are getting flatter in management with fewer people at the top. It's not true about ill health - you get a lot of sick leave in social care, but guess why, because if you have an infectious cold you can't deliver meals on wheels to 90 year olds in case they catch it and die. As for senior management, there's a public-sector equivalent to an MBA that a lot of them have done, otherwise there are broader postgrad courses. I would agree though that local government at a senior level is still, happily, one of the sectors that judges people more on their track record and proven skills than their academic qualifications.

treliac

macaque wrote: »

Public servants have no idea how profoundly detached they have become from the real world. Public sector employees spend their days inventing new jobs for tasks they have failed to do themselves......

This sounds like fantasyland. Who are all these people? Where did you meet them? Where's the evidence rather than the rhetoric then?

macaque_2

beingjdc wrote: »

The thing is, all of this is a fiction. I mean literally not a single thing you've said there is true, so what's the point?

It's not true about job chains - councils are getting flatter in management with fewer people at the top. It's not true about ill health - you get a lot of sick leave in social care, but guess why, because if you have an infectious cold you can't deliver meals on wheels to 90 year olds in case they catch it and die. As for senior management, there's a public-sector equivalent to an MBA that a lot of them have done, otherwise there are broader postgrad courses. I would agree though that local government at a senior level is still, happily, one of the sectors that judges people more on their track record and proven skills than their academic qualifications.

You can howl all you like but my comments were true and a matter of public record.

The figure of 9.8 days means that staff in town halls, health services, schools and other government-funded bodies took about 35 per cent more time off than employees in private companies, who each missed about seven days.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2585711/Public-sector-workers-take-two-weeks-sick-leave-a-year.html

Competition for money among government-funded agencies may lead to excessive public sector employment, according to new research by economists Dr Sebastian Kessing and Professor Kai Konrad, published in the January 2008 issue of The Economic Journal. The phenomenon of ‘strategic hiring’, which is driven by competition for funds, may explain why the public sector is typically more labour intensive than the private sector.

http://www.res.org.uk/society/mediabriefings/pdfs/2008/0801/kessing_konrad.pdf

beingjdc

macaque wrote: »

You can howl all you like but my comments were true and a matter of public record.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2585711/Public-sector-workers-take-two-weeks-sick-leave-a-year.html

So if a bout of flu is grounds for three months off, and the average worker in the public sector takes two weeks off, they must get flu once every seven years, and not get any other illnesses at all? That's pretty good.

I've explained this before, and above. The public sector sickness curve is almost solely caused by three things

1) people who work with the elderly and have to stay off sick if they might be infectious
2) teachers constantly going off with stress (frankly the state of a lot of schools I'm not surprised)
3) it taking longer for the public sector to lay people off if they have long-term health problems

Frankly, the private sector could do to have less presenteeism, I know people who, paid by the hour or in a temp role with no sick leave, have to turn up or lose their pay and/or job, struggle in when they're in no fit state to do any work, and infect the whole of their tube carriage into the bargain. What's the good in that.

For the record, I've had six and a half sick days since I joined the public sector in Spring 2003, so call it just over one a year. When I was in the private sector I had far more, largely because the nature of the work managed to make me ill, and in one case because the hopeless management and bad attitudes meant I had no incentive to struggle in if it was a marginal case.

Competition for money among government-funded agencies may lead to excessive public sector employment, according to new research by economists Dr Sebastian Kessing and Professor Kai Konrad

I'm not convinced that research based on the Berlin Opera house can be generalised to the UK public sector as a whole. I can't speak for the civil service, but local government in the 21st century pretty much operates on a short-staffed basis in every department, either by budgeting, or by in-year 'vacancy management'.

macaque_2

beingjdc

Looking at your tortured explanations, I'm inclined to suspect that you are a shop steward in the public sector. Fair enough, nothing wrong with that. Where I have a problem is the credibility of your spin. It is just not up to scatch. The stories of overmanning comes from your own members. Time after time, public sector employees on this and other web sites acknowledge that their departments are totally overstaffed. Within the last few days Digby Jones has made some very forthright statements on the subject.

Your theories on why public sector employees are a special case would be amusing if the matter were not so serious. You speak as if the private sector has no role in nursing, teaching or looking after the elderly.