An Open Letter To Mortgage Brokers.

HelpWhereIcan

harryhound wrote: »

My lifetime of experience suggests that the majority of advisers, in all branches of the service industry, don't seem to have a department that can look out for its former clients, and tell them when to switch. A -> B, Buy -> Sell etc.

Very true. I left a very large and successful regional practice to set up on my own because the focus was more on getting new clients than servicing old ones.

An entrenched habit that goes back a lot of years in the industry and in some managers/principals.

However, thsoe that are doing better at the moment (I defy anyone to say they are doing well) are those who are servicing and building on that client relationship.

Easy for those who set up the simple technology to do it from the off, but there are a lot of Luddites in this industry.

harryhound wrote: »

Some are happy to make a sale and trouser the commission.
Some will try the "Churn & Burn" approach, when sitting round in the office playing cards, to stay in business.

Churners have mainly gone to seek greener pastures in solar panel sales etc.

harryhound wrote: »

A site like this actually does a lot for active brokers by trying to wake up lazy numpties who cannot be bothered to realise that their inaction is costing them 1,000's.

I agree.

The industry needs to take a positive stance when trying to put forward its point of view on issues like advice vs diy as it is our responsibility to address some of the negative preconceptions that many people (wrongly) hold.

Many of the brokers (and to his chagrin I'll include dunstonh -an IFA - in that) who come here regularly have tried to do that positively and largely succeeded, just a shame for us that some brokers elsewhere act without thinking or bothering to look at what Martin actually does.

It is not Martin's job to promote brokers, but he does it very often - just in a very consumer orientated way.

Those brokers who attack him in the way some have do the industry no favours.

fagun

jamesd wrote: »

It's not as simple as that.
..."4.10 Deciding whether a person giving advice must be authorised by the FSA is determined by applying four tests:
• Is the provision of advice carried on in the UK?
• Is the advice given by way of business?
• Does the advice relate to a specified investment?
• Does the advice relate to a specified activity?
4.11 All four tests must be met to require FSA authorisation.."

I've yet to see Martin fail to use careful wording to ensure that while his business clearly meets the first two tests, he won't meet both of the second pair...

Section 7 of the document may be more problematic for Martin, since his business collects commission (referral fees) for acts that could be taken to be introducing people to comparison web sites. I assume that he has obtained and follows individual legal or FSA advice on this subject. A consumer, not acting in the course of a business, would have no such concern. If Martin reads this I'd be interested in knowing the legal reasoning that ensures his business is safe, out of curiosity about the regulatory boundaries rather than any belief that anything improper is being done.

For what it's worth, I think this website - Martin, the MSE team and especially the Forum have done more for financial literacy than the FSA in its first 9 years. Which has required IFAs and others in the financial services industry to up their game (see. bank charges, stoozing, cashback cards, saynoto0870).

I haven't seen any of Martin's articles talk about specific investments or activities. The articles are no different to those printed in a weekend "money" section - except that they tend to be more timely and more helpful. In fact, I've recently seen a number of newspapers producing articles more akin to MSE's.

I think Martin has done his legal homework. Receiving referral income relating to websites does not require authorisation - Martin does not collect any personal information as part of the referral process - so it can't be specific advice. However, he's authorised as an introducer for insurance purposes - since the boundary is less clear cut.

One of the posts above mentions Icesave - and criticises this website. I think people need to take some personal responsibility. It's your money, so whatever goes on this website (or advice given by an IFA or broker), you still need to do your own homework. Pre Northern Rock, most advisors would not have paid that much attention to deposit protection for savings income - since a "run on the bank" seemed such an unlikely event. After Northern Rock, MSE was very quick to change its stance. And even more so after Bear Stearns and AIG in September.

icelolly_2

It shows the type of people that mortgage brokers are if they can resort to threats.

Most of the information can be found on the web. Search and go directly to the financial institution and avoid brokers if you can.

You must be saying the right things if you have wound people up.

MSE_Martin

Another point which is good to point out is he talks of direct deals that brokers dont have access to! but they is no meantion of exclusive broker deals that the normal public cant get without a broker!

Except I've done exactly that both on the TV, in print, and in the article that we're mainly discussing?

Whats deeply frustrating about this debate, is the number of people who continue to tell me "you don't do X or Y" having never actually read what I do tell people!

*Chattie*

thekaver wrote: »

why the need to start skitting, !!!!!!!:mad:

Is this mortgage broker speak

Conrad

thekaver wrote: »

id like to put that to the test?

You sound like the sort of broker that makes me feel embarrased to be a broker, in'it.

No one can call themselves a professional when thier grammer and spelling, let alone grasp of the debate is so poor, in'it.

When is the last time you spent a few hours pouring over the exact health definitions of a clients EXISTING critical illness policy before recommending a new one?
Your grasp of English tells me you wouldn't have a clue as to the impact of wording on lets say angioplasy.

I bet your one of those sales types I come accross.

Conrad

thekaver wrote: »

why the need to start skitting, !!!!!!!:mad:

My image of you is one of a buckle shoe'd salesman, chuffing away on a fag, rough accent who reads the Sun and has not a clue on economics or politics.
And you consider yourself a professional with this thick langauge you use.

fomark

I am an IFA, and deal with mortgages, The market is tough, but you either work harder and smarter, or find something else to do.

Martin does not claim to be an adviser, and only attempts to help the general public, as lets face it, most of them very much need his help (not advice may I add).

Martin has saved me, yes a Financial Adviser quite a few hundred pounds, and continues to give great help with his weekly email. I don't have much time to speak here today as I am self-employed and focused on making a living.

The minority who are complaining about Martin, should stop wasting their time and get on with making a living, or do something else.

He is merely trying to make Joe Public a bit more financially savvy (save them money (hence the name)), which will most probably guide more clients to IFA's and away from their own bank.

HelpWhereIcan

Conrad wrote: »

You sound like the sort of broker that makes me feel embarrased to be a broker, in'it.

No one can call themselves a professional when thier grammer and spelling, let alone grasp of the debate is so poor, in'it.

When is the last time you spent a few hours pouring over the exact health definitions of a clients EXISTING critical illness policy before recommending a new one?
Your grasp of English tells me you wouldn't have a clue as to the impact of wording on lets say angioplasy.

I bet your one of those sales types I come accross.

Well said, but I think you're being a bit generous in assuming this guy knows that angioplasty was ever covered at all let alone that definitions gradually tightened up before the definition was removed altogether by all but a couple of insurers. :beer:

Only last week I managed (just) to stop someone cancelling a CIC plan that had angioplasty on - he had been 'educated' by his usual broker to change his Life & CIC everytime he changed his mortgage!!! Thank god it was 6 years ago that he last saw him.

Conrad wrote: »

My image of you is one of a buckle shoe'd salesman, chuffing away on a fag, rough accent who reads the Sun and has not a clue on economics or politics.
And you consider yourself a professional with this thick langauge you use.

Quick, someone call the men in white coats ....

I find myself agreeing with a Conrad post :rotfl: ..... for the second time in one year!!!!!! :eek:

Please tell me I'm not turning into a 'Grumpy Old Man' - I'm still young and glamourous!!!


.... innit

dunstonh

Only last week I managed (just) to stop someone cancelling a CIC plan that had angioplasty on - he had been 'educated' by his usual broker to change his Life & CIC everytime he changed his mortgage!!! Thank god it was 6 years ago that he last saw him.

Good points and quite a common issue. However, I wonder how many more consumers that have read MSEs articles on life assurance and getting it cheaper have also checked out things like this when they have rebrokered.

I doubt very many consider what is or isnt covered as the whole focus appears to be on price rather than quality and options. (just as much an issue with comparison sites).