Is this sex discrimination?

skintchick

Idiophreak wrote: »

Ah, happier days

Seriously, though...the women that died and suffered for all of these things did so with a "greater good" in mind. They knew they were helping women all across the world and felt their personal sacrifice was worth it.

Would they have done the same things if they were the only ones bothered?

The OP's the only person in their firm that seems upset about this, so she's only going to help herself. If in doing so she makes herself a target for possible redundancies in an economic climate where it's tough to find work...maybe it's not a price worth paying.

I'M bothered. I'm bothered there are men like that still in management and behaving like that. I'm bothered that the company isn;t taking it seriously and thinks it's OK to treat women less well than men. I'm bothered that if no-one challenges them and gets this out in the open the discrimination will continue.

It's a wider issue than the OP's department/firm.

naturally_2

I just wanted to commeont on various replies on here, not sure how to quote more than one person - sorry!

The person who said she was foolish not to open the envelope - if she handed it in opened he may claim she had stolen some of the content. If she didn't hand it in full stop and it was a bribe, she would be guilty of accepting a bribe, which I think is viewed as unfavourably as offering one. I think she did the right thing by handing it in unopened - but maybe she should have waited to calm down before emailing HR.

I'm glad she went to the do. She needed to by the sound of it to not be left at a disadvantage against her male colleagues. I'm also interested to hear what the union says - the fact that she is with a union at all is a huge point in her favour.

If I were the OP I would play very definately to the rules. QUOTE the rule book if she has to. Not be bullied to back down. My own experience of small companies is that they think the rule book doesn't apply to them. It does.

... but I do agree with the "pick your fight" advocates on here, and I wouldn't incur any expenses on this one - but I would be looking to leave the company just as soon as I felt it was economically viable.

WRT her and her partner, it is reasonable that the company has a policy on relationships in the workplace - and if acting as if they aren't a couple is the only way to avoid a fight on that one I'd happily do it. The MD's comments on photos etc aren't reasonable but aren't worth the hassle. She seems like a particularly agressive woman who has probably got to where she is in a male dominated environment by taking on male characteristics - no its not meant as a sexist remark, just one on typical female and male behaviour in business.

Idiophreak

skintchick wrote: »

I'M bothered. I'm bothered there are men like that still in management and behaving like that. I'm bothered that the company isn;t taking it seriously and thinks it's OK to treat women less well than men. I'm bothered that if no-one challenges them and gets this out in the open the discrimination will continue.

It's a wider issue than the OP's department/firm.

Discrimination is a wider issue, but the scope of the OPs power to affect the issue is, most probably, somewhat smaller.

How will her succeeding in this actually help you, that's so bothered by her plight? It won't have any impact on your life, besides, perhaps, the warm fuzzy feeling you'll get inside knowing that all's well in the world.

If the OP does mark herself out for a target of future problems and ends up losing her job, will you consider your warm fuzzy feeling as "worth it"?

skintchick

Idiophreak wrote: »

Discrimination is a wider issue, but the scope of the OPs power to affect the issue is, most probably, somewhat smaller.

How will her succeeding in this actually help you, that's so bothered by her plight? It won't have any impact on your life, besides, perhaps, the warm fuzzy feeling you'll get inside knowing that all's well in the world.

If the OP does mark herself out for a target of future problems and ends up losing her job, will you consider your warm fuzzy feeling as "worth it"?

I think that firstly, the OP is capable of deciding what she wants to do by herself, and in fact she did so over the bribe as she took her action before posting about it on here.

Secondly, she is already a target at her work, which seems to have a culutre not only of sexism but of bullying, and therefore I'd say she is better off out of there, and in any case if she is a target already she will probably be one of the first against the wall if the company needs to make cuts.

Thirdly, fighting against injustice is more than 'a warm fuzzy feeling', and just because you are not willing to fight for people's rights or stand up and be counted, does not mean that others like me are not.

No, I am directly affected by this particular situation, but if you look at an earlier post of mine you will see that I am currently out of work because i refused to compromise my principles, so I do practice what I preach.

I believe that justice and equality are more important than anything else, including jobs and money, perhaps especially jobs and money.

Just because you don't share my principles and moral values doesn't make me wrong.

Idiophreak

skintchick wrote: »

I think that firstly, the OP is capable of deciding what she wants to do by herself, and in fact she did so over the bribe as she took her action before posting about it on here.

Secondly, she is already a target at her work, which seems to have a culutre not only of sexism but of bullying, and therefore I'd say she is better off out of there, and in any case if she is a target already she will probably be one of the first against the wall if the company needs to make cuts.

Thirdly, fighting against injustice is more than 'a warm fuzzy feeling', and just because you are not willing to fight for people's rights or stand up and be counted, does not mean that others like me are not.

No, I am directly affected by this particular situation, but if you look at an earlier post of mine you will see that I am currently out of work because i refused to compromise my principles, so I do practice what I preach.

I believe that justice and equality are more important than anything else, including jobs and money, perhaps especially jobs and money.

Just because you don't share my principles and moral values doesn't make me wrong.

I don't recall saying you were wrong? :rolleyes:

Anyway, it must be nice for you to be able to afford to be so cavalier about losing your job...many of us find it to be quite a big deal, especially, as I said, in the current economic climate. Sometimes people have to swallow their pride, their principles and precious moral values and concentrate on providing for their family.

I too have left previous jobs over small things like this when I was young, thrusting and had little to lose. Things get a bit more complicated, though, as time goes on and I find myself being a bit more practical about things. I have my morals, but I also have my price. If I consider sticking to my morals to be worth the cost, I'll do it. If not, I won't.

With employment going as it is, if I were the OP, I'd be looking at rebuilding bridges with my employer, rather than burning the ones that are left. You always have a choice, you can force yourself further into a corner, or you can try and get out of it.

Just my opinion which, for the record, doesn't make anyone else wrong...

Clive_Woody

sportbeth wrote: »

I quote from his e-mail this morning "
DRESS
Black tie for Gents (this has already been arranged - if not please see *****)
Elegant ballgowns for the Ladies!!

If you require any further information please don't hesistate to contact me"

Go naked....:beer:

skintchick

Idiophreak wrote: »

I don't recall saying you were wrong? :rolleyes:

Anyway, it must be nice for you to be able to afford to be so cavalier about losing your job...many of us find it to be quite a big deal, especially, as I said, in the current economic climate. Sometimes people have to swallow their pride, their principles and precious moral values and concentrate on providing for their family.

I too have left previous jobs over small things like this when I was young, thrusting and had little to lose. Things get a bit more complicated, though, as time goes on and I find myself being a bit more practical about things. I have my morals, but I also have my price. If I consider sticking to my morals to be worth the cost, I'll do it. If not, I won't.

With employment going as it is, if I were the OP, I'd be looking at rebuilding bridges with my employer, rather than burning the ones that are left. You always have a choice, you can force yourself further into a corner, or you can try and get out of it.

Just my opinion which, for the record, doesn't make anyone else wrong...

I'm glad you think I might fall into that category! :rotfl: Actually, I'm in a terrible position as I'm pregnant and unlikely to be able to get another job, I do a small job once a month I cannot give up easily which means I don;t qualify for JSA, and I'm not yet entitled to Maternity Allowance, but I STILL prefer to stand by my principles. (Although, yes, I do have a husband with a job and we will manage.)

mymatebob

I think we should now wait until the OP gets back with an update before this goes much further.

At the moment it is all just idle (well maybe not that idle) speculation.

skintchick

mymatebob wrote: »

I think we should now wait until the OP gets back with an update before this goes much further.

At the moment it is all just idle (well maybe not that idle) speculation.

We're just debating the wider issue.

Nicki

skintchick wrote: »

Slightly different, but I was encouraged to lie on my timesheets to secure my job (as my job is rective and I wasn't being given enough to do). I didn't, because I feel that lying is wrong and I won't do it, on principle. I got made redundant. I still feel I did the right thing - I live by my principles first and if I always do what is right then I know that whatever happens I haven't done the wrong thing (yes that is meant two ways).

I am to be honest just a little insulted at the implication that ANYTHING I have said might be interpreted as suggesting that I would tell a lie/commit fraud for my own financial advantage

Those who think that any infringement of your strict legal rights or unfairness is worth detonating a bomb which will destroy both you and all around you in the process are never going to understand what I have posted, and will continue to debate this with me ad infinitum. I am pleased however that some posters have understood where I am coming from, and that I had the best interests of sportsbeth not those of her company at heart when I formed my view. I hope it all works out for her in the long run (and am glad she enjoyed the do)