found a lot of unexpected debts...

dap_3

mum passed away a couple of weeks ago, and came across a lot of debts that we didn't know about - i am trying to help dad sort them out.

she was married+living with dad (and i) - had a joint mortgage, 90k owed on current mortgage. House probably worth £160,000.

Found out that the endowment was cancelled a few years ago - interest only mortgage currently.

Found approximately 6 credit cards - some with credit limit of £400 but balance (on debt collection letter) of £850 or so... (i.e. lots of late fees, etc etc?).

Something very odd - 2 capital one credit cards were found, with her name on the card, but there were letters addressed to his name referring to these cards (He never dealt with any postal mail, left it all to her).

Approx 4k owed on the cards.

2 catalogues (Great universal, LX Direct) - about 1.5k owed between them.

And 3.5k left on a secured loan (at a bad rate).

I was considering something like this -

- write to the two catalogue companies asking for copy of credit agreement,
- write to the credit card companies telling them of her passing, asking for final settlement figure?
- don't remortgage for the cards/catalogs, possibly for the secured loan (from 'First national home finance'), if it works out cheaper after early repayment.


her only estate that i can think of is the mortgage/house, which is in joint names (we are still living here, don't want to move unless we really have to)

Anyone have any tips? I browsed through some of the national debtline letters, but perhaps it is a lot different because she has passed away

J_P_S

arent credit cards unsecured debt? if so and they are only in her name surely they should be written off.

possibly the same with the catalogues?

Bossyboots

How was the property held, Joint Tenants or Tenants in Common?

If the former then her share passes to your dad as of right and does not form part of her estate. If the latter, then her half is her estate and the debts will have to be paid from that even if it means selling the property to raise the capital.

Debts only in her name do not have to be repaid by anyone else so the catalogue debts may be unrecoverable by the companies involved. However, I am concerned about the Capital One cards as it is possible she has got these using your dad's name and then applied for cards for herself as additional card holder. If he is the primary cardholder then he is either going to have to claim she forged his signature or pay the debts. As the primary cardholder he is responsible for all spending on the accounts by additional cardholders. He needs therefore to establish the exact origin of those cards. Capital One do endless mail shots. Is the correspondence addressed to your dad actually about the specific cards or just cards in general?

How did she get a secured loan without your dad signing as well?

---lee---

Sorry to hear your bad news dap and welcome to MSE.

I know the T&C's on my CC say that I must repay it when I die. Quite how they are going to enforce that (with me at least) I'm not sure.

My guess would be that the debts get paid of of the deceased estate.

It is certainly a good idea to get copies of the credit agreements.

You can also get a copy of your Mum's credit file from the credit reference agencies (Equifax, Experian and CallCredit). This will show any others loans.

There should be plenty more advice from others shortly.

Cheers,

Lee.

dap_3

thanks for the suggestions...

The property is held as Tenants in common, according to the letter from mortgage company. So it would seem that her estate is half the house - however, it was an interest-only mortgage, so this is only half the equity?

The correspondance from capital one is from them directly and debt collection agencies - regarding these specific cards. She got them without his knowledge (But this would presumably be impossible to prove now).

The secured loan is joint, and he did know of this and spoke over the phone agreeing to it.

Bossyboots

That is right, her estate is her share of the equity in the property.

If your mum was primary cardholder, then those debts come out of her estate. Your dad is not personally liable for them. I am concerned about why they have written to your dad though. This indicates that he has some connection to the cards as otherwise they should have been writing to him. He needs to find out from Capital One the origin and status of any cards/accounts in his name and your mum's.

How could he have agreed a secured loan over the telephone? It can only have become secured by registration at the Land Registry. This would have required a document with the signatures of both your parents. Has he actually signed anything in relation to this loan?

Sorry to keep picking up points but there are some misnomers in what you are saying which make things a little blurred. If you don't want to put too much on the board, please feel free to send me a pm. I would be interested in the details of the letters from Capital One but I would understand if you did not want to pass those on.

dap_3

He doesn't recall signing anything - this was done in May 2004 for £5000.


Letters from capital one (Amount owed £995, credit limit £600) - sent middle of may 05:

The letters from capital one - "your account is now offically in default" - this means that:
1) Capital one has terminated your right to credit under the agreement with you and you have permenetly lost all spending privilages and right to credit with your card
2) We now have the right to demand the whole balance of your account paid straight away. We will add any costs capital one incurs by having to use enforcement action to the amount you owe.
3) If you have not already done so, we will be notifying credt agencies that you have defaulted on your agreement. This may affect your ability to get credit from other lenders.

We will now either:
- Place your account with a debt collections agency, who will have the option to use door-to-door collectors, or
- Begin legal proceedings to recover all sums due to capital one

Sent june (Latest letter found): CREDITOR'S NOTICE.. unless you make payment within 7 days a county court claim may be issued...


The other capital one card:
balance £873 (£400 credit limit)
Last letter dated end of june 2005. Virtually the same letter as above from capital one, and the creditors notice (*2) - earlier than this.

researcher

Hi dap, I'm really sorry to hear about your loss.

When my Mum died I found a few things too - but without exception all the companies were really helpful when they knew the circumstances, so don't hesitate to tell them that no-one but her knew about her affairs and you're doing your best to unravel everything.

Do get advice from somewhere like the Citizens Advice Bureau (free), and do not be pressurised into action before knowing all the facts and how you stand legally.

Take care.
:grouphug:

Bossyboots

I agree with researcher, you need to be honest with the companies. It would seem there is a lot to unravel here. Capital One may just be trying it on but it does sound like he is party to the cards.

You need to obtain a copy of the loan agreement. Do you have a copy of property title deeds showing that it is definitely secured.

Is it possible your dad has simply forgotten about signing for the loan and signing to apply for these cards? Could it be that he doesn't want to admit his part in it to you? It can be hard for a parent to admit to their offspring that they have made mistakes.

dap_3

It is possible that he signed for the loan and forgot - he was aware of two loans they took out together, though he only remembers speaking on the phone with regard to the latest one.

He definitely had nothing to do with any credit cards; he needed me to show him how to use the cash machine last week - she 'dealt' with all the mail, documents etc.

Either way, i can't see that it would make much difference; it would presumably still come from the estate (half of the house which he wishes to keep).

J_P_S

i didnt think credit card bills could be reclaimed from someone's estate, is that incorrect then?