!!!!!! - Clown to raise the top rate of tax to 45%

stephen163

Flat rate of tax may be 'fairer' but it would be an absolute disaster for lower earners. As it stands, the tax system is used to try to incentivise the unemployed into work. The moral question of whether the rich should subsidise the poor comes second place to the obligation on government to increase ther overall welfare of the general population.

Dithering_Dad

ad44downey wrote: »

We need a much fairer and simpler tax system. So that the rich pay alot more and that there's no point in them employing clever accountants to exploit tax loopholes because those tax loopholes no longer exist!

By the words 'the rich pay more', I assume you mean they pay the same proportion of tax as everyone else (i.e. say, 30% of income), but due to the fact they earn so much more, they pay much more (i.e. 30% of £10k = £3k & 30% of £100k = £30k)?

Otherwise it's not fairer.

Dithering_Dad

stephen163 wrote: »

Flat rate of tax may be 'fairer' but it would be an absolute disaster for lower earners. As it stands, the tax system is used to try to incentivise the unemployed into work. The moral question of whether the rich should subsidise the poor comes second place to the obligation on government to increase ther overall welfare of the general population.

Not if it used in conjuction with decent tax free thresholds that include WTC and CTC payment (working & childrens tax credits).

If a lower paid family had a joint income of £16k, with a £10k tax-free allowance, £3k CTC and £1k WTC tax free thresholds, they would be allowed to earn £14k tax free.

There may even be cases where someone's income is beneath the tax free thresholds, for example if a couple earned £13k pa and had a 15k tax free threshold. In this case their entire income would be tax free, plus they would be able to earn a further £2k tax free - a great incentive to work.

For those who are on the rock and roll, they would receive basic benefits but no tax credits - a great incentive to work.

Also, the huge amounts of efficiency savings in having a simpler tax system should not be overlooked. Perhaps CTC and WTC could be increased in line with these efficiency savings?

stephen163

A study carried out by PriceWaterhouseCooper in 2005 showed that with a £10k tax free threshold, the main losers would be people on middle incomes. £10k earners would gain by about £800/yr. £20k earners would break even getting progressively worse until £38k - people earning this would lose about £1300 year. Next breakeven point is at about £55k and after this gains are proportional to your earnings.

According to this, the major losers of a flat tax system (with £10k threshold) are people earning between £20k and £55k. This comes as a surprise to me.

Gorgeous_George

The world needs to get together to get rid of tax havens - by force if necessary. Let the super rich move offshore but make them take their businesses with them. They need the UK every bit as much as we need them IMHO.

The tax burden falls unfairly on those least able to pay. Those workers who help to make the rich richer.

GG

Generali

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

The world needs to get together to get rid of tax havens - by force if necessary.

How do you think we could do that? Also, what level of tax would we force these tax havens to apply on people? That of the UK? The US? Germany? Cuba?

All a tax haven really is is a country with a very low tax rate. Surely it's reasonable for any country to set whatever rate of tax it wants.

PS PM me your address. I'll send you some fresh lemons. The tree is a little out of control so we've got hundreds of the blighters.

mitchaa

stephen163 wrote: »

A study carried out by PriceWaterhouseCooper in 2005 showed that with a £10k tax free threshold, the main losers would be people on middle incomes. £10k earners would gain by about £800/yr. £20k earners would break even getting progressively worse until £38k - people earning this would lose about £1300 year. Next breakeven point is at about £55k and after this gains are proportional to your earnings.

According to this, the major losers of a flat tax system (with £10k threshold) are people earning between £20k and £55k. This comes as a surprise to me.

At the moment the PA is £6035, so if it were to rise to £10k how can anyone lose out? Everyone would gain

Set PA at £10k, tax the next £30835 @ 20% and anything over that at 40% then no-one would lose out or am i missing something blindingly obvious?

I would go as far as giving a £15k PA and scrapping the WTC/CTC/CB for those who are in employment.

Generali

mitchaa wrote: »

At the moment the PA is £6035, so if it were to rise to £10k how can anyone lose out? Everyone would gain

Set PA at £10k, tax the next £30835 @ 20% and anything over that at 40% then no-one would lose out or am i missing something blindingly obvious?

I would go as far as giving a £15k PA and scrapping the WTC/CTC/CB for those who are in employment.

It's crazy. I was on a little under GBP50k and got tax credits. I can only assume that the idea is to create a massive 'client group' who feel beholden to the state and so feel that they have to keep on voting for state socialism.

Gorgeous_George

I'm on less than £30K and get nothing. Worked since 16 and had nothing given to me. Happy that what little I have has been earned.

It is madness that our soldiers fighting in Iraq/Afghanistan earn so little compared to many other less noteworthy occupations. I would not like my sons to follow me into the Armed Forces (I left at 30) .

GG

mitchaa

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

I'm on less than £30K and get nothing. Worked since 16 and had nothing given to me. Happy that what little I have has been earned.

It is madness that our soldiers fighting in Iraq/Afghanistan earn so little compared to many other less noteworthy occupations. I would not like my sons to follow me into the Armed Forces (I left at 30) .

GG

The military is not too badly paid actually. Better paid than NHS/Police/Fire Brigade etc etc

If you go in as an infantry soldier, then you're likely to remain on low pay for a while but if you go into 1 of the trades that offers good quick promotion, then it is a fairly well paid occupation.

I have a friend who is a corporal in the REME, 20yrs old earning £30k as a technician. Lives virtually rent free, has a final salary pension that he does not contribute too and drives a 911 carrera 4s. (God knows how he gets insurance on it but he does)

Better off than most 20yr olds i would say.