where has pension gone

binzy

hi guys
sorry to trouble you with my first post problem but hope to contribute more when back off my holidays.

here goes, my brother inlaw past 65 18 months ago and tried to get is private pension on turning 65 only to be told it was paid out in 1996 to someone,they the pension company can provide the cheque number but nothing else so someone must have applaid for it but who? my sister keeps everything even bank statements for this time and nothing there at all, my brother in law ex boss is refusing contact in anyway with is solicitor so he is prime suspect as to where its gone, my sister has also been to the tax office to find out if they can help as they are paying £45 a week tax on pension they are not getting, now around the time this pension was cashed in he was in serious ill health and not expected to live a long life so he thinks is ex boss somehow cash it in not expecting him to live this long, now i have only put a outline of what has happened so not to much detail so if someone can point them in the right direction as it looks as if the police is now the only option left to them, sorry if this is the wrong place for this but just trying to help them

MikeJones_2

Hi binzy,

Your brother-in-law ought to contact The Pensions Advisory Service (TPAS) and register a complaint. An adviser at TPAS will then take over the complaint, and do all of the necessary legwork to investigate and mediate.

The TPAS service is free, so there is no cost to your brother or his family. There is a helpline on 0845 601 2923.

I hope your brother-in-law is able to resolve the situation to his satisfaction and I'd be interested to know how it pans out, if you don't mind sharing the outcome with us in the future.

Mike

I work in the field of Pension Education and Pension Guidance in the UK. I am a current member of the Specialist Pensions Forum as well as being a Voluntary Adviser for The Pensions Advisory Service. I work with scheme members, employers, trustees, scheme administrators and advisers on most things to do with employer sponsored pension schemes. The views expressed by me in this thread are my personal opinions. You should seek professional advice from an appropriately experienced and qualified adviser. I am not an IFA.

MrChips

This sounds like a case of Fraud. If so the police will probably need to be involved at some point, although I'd follow Mike's suggestion above first and get the complaint in motion asap.

binzy

hi guys
thanks for the comments guys its exactly what im after as there is always ways to do things correctly so police will be involved i think eventually as someone must have asked the company to pay out, and the good thing is my sister aways keeps all thier documents, and i will let you know of any developements when i return from holidays but please keep any other comments coming as all greatfully received and much appreciated

cheers binzy

EdInvestor

binzy wrote: »

here goes, my brother inlaw past 65 18 months ago and tried to get is private pension on turning 65 only to be told it was paid out in 1996 to someone..they the pension company can provide the cheque number but nothing else

This suggests that it was paid out as a death benefit, ie to your FIL's beneficiaries which he will have earlier nominated. This would normally be a spouse or children.There would need to be proof of his death.

so someone must have applaid for it but who?

It's not a case of applying for it so much as advising the pension comapny of the death - or in the case its imminent likelihood of same.If the latter, it would have to be your FIL who applied to have the pension paid out in cash due to terminal illness.

Is this a private pension through an insurance company or a company pension?

my sister has also been to the tax office to find out if they can help as they are paying £45 a week tax on pension they are not getting

Are you saying that they are being taxed on income from a pension that is supposedly being paid out but isn't? How long has this been going on?

This does not seem to compute with the suggestion that a cash death benefit has been paid out.



Frankly what you say doesn't really add up.

binzy

EdInvestor wrote: »

This suggests that it was paid out as a death benefit, ie to your FIL's beneficiaries which he will have earlier nominated. This would normally be a spouse or children.There would need to be proof of his death.

well i would assume that my sister was the beneficiary nominated but my brother in laws company manager was paying the contributions into a pension fund and he is refusing any contact with thier solicitor. but they cant remember nominating anyone as beneficiary

It's not a case of applying for it so much as advising the pension comapny of the death - or in the case its imminent likelihood of same.If the latter, it would have to be your FIL who applied to have the pension paid out in cash due to terminal illnes

s.

well he was not terminally ill just serious and without the surgery that was unavialable when the pension was cashed in 1996 he would not have been expected to last this long and without new laser treatment he wouldnt have, so they received a lump sum in march of 1996 excluding protected rights but another cheque was cashed in october of 1996 thats were the problem lay where did that go,because whoever had it new it would not come to light till he reach 65 which he wasnt expected to reach

Is this a private pension through an insurance company or a company pension?

it was taken out of his pay by is work and paid into what i assume is a pension company,

Are you saying that they are being taxed on income from a pension that is supposedly being paid out but isn't? How long has this been going on?

this part is a bit over my head as it has something to do with serps and customs and excise the figure is £34 not as i said earlier and i beleive only started at the age of 65
sorry so vauge but sister doesnt have a computer so trying to understand it bit by bit

This does not seem to compute with the suggestion that a cash death benefit has been paid out.

well he is still here so death benefit or any other money of his should not be paid to a third party

Frankly what you say doesn't really add up.

well will try my best to make it clear but as stated im getting this info via the phone and im not good at this tecnical stuff but im confused myself but thanks for your patience anyway

cheers binzy

binzy

ok guys

update: first of all a big thank to you all for the help and MikeJones spot on with your info as sister phoned the number this morning and told the story to them they then they passed my sister on to the national insurance contribution people who in seconds had his details up on the computer, now these people apparently have to be informed of any payment sent out but you guest it nothing on thier system either!, the brother in laws pension people say they sent the cheque out in october 1996 even supplied cheque number but nothing else no bank or sort code or person paid and not notified national insurance contributions people !, they are now investigating the matter and also the pension advisory people said they will also investigate after national insurance people have finnished thier investigations, so at least she has some help as been paying a solicitor for the past twelve months with no joy as is ex boss at the company he worked for all his life is refusing to respond will keep you updated as to the outcome but on holidays tomorrow so away for awhile

thanks again binzy

MikeJones_2

Hi binzy,

binzy wrote: »

...been paying a solicitor for the past twelve months with no joy

Just a thought. I'd ask the solicitor to explain why he hadn't recommended TPAS as I would have thought that most professional bodies are aware of the service. Depending on the answer, you might want to ask for a discount on the fees that the solicitor is charging.

Mike

I work in the field of Pension Education and Pension Guidance in the UK. I am a current member of the Specialist Pensions Forum as well as being a Voluntary Adviser for The Pensions Advisory Service. I work with scheme members, employers, trustees, scheme administrators and advisers on most things to do with employer sponsored pension schemes. The views expressed by me in this thread are my personal opinions. You should seek professional advice from an appropriately experienced and qualified adviser. I am not an IFA.

binzy

hi mike
think thats a good idea as i got more info here off you guys in one day than a twelve months with the solicitor, both my sister and brother in law are not well people and could have done without all this hassle, but they feel bit easier today knowing there are people around who can help them as they like myself have no knowlege in this field of pensions

cheers binzy

EdInvestor

they received a lump sum in march of 1996

OK, this makes sense.Your brother in law "took benefits" from his personal pension in 1996 (excluding the "protected rights" Serps component, which at the time couldn't be taken until age 60).

He got 25% of the fund paid out as a tax free lump sum.The rest would normally have been paid to him monthly or annually as a taxable income via an annuity from the insurance company.Are you saying he never received this annuity income?Which insurance company are we talking about?

another cheque was cashed in october of 1996

Very mysterious. There might have been a delay between paying out the tax free cash and the first instalment of an annuity paid annually. But the whole fund cannot be paid out (unless the person has died and then only in particular circumstances.)

....this part is a bit over my head as it has something to do with serps and customs and excise the figure is £34 not as i said earlier and i beleive only started at the age of 65

OK, this seems to suggest that when he got to 65 he then "took benefits" from the remaining part of the pensions, the protected rights bit - which is also taxable income.This also makes sense.

So the question seems to be, assuming the relatives bought an annuity with the remainder of the pension fund in 1996, why did they not ask what had happened to their income when no money arrived in theoir bank account?

binzy

OK, this makes sense.Your brother in law "took benefits" from his personal pension in 1996 (excluding the "protected rights" Serps component, which at the time couldn't be taken until age 60).

He got 25% of the fund paid out as a tax free lump sum.The rest would normally have been paid to him monthly or annually as a taxable income via an annuity from the insurance company.Are you saying he never received this annuity income?Which insurance company are we talking about?

the first cheque that was sent out in may 1996 this is the only payment ever received he was then aged 55 no other payment weekly, monthly yearly, has ever been received and after terning 65 in 2006 he thought he would then get the pension from the money paid in,

Very mysterious. There might have been a delay between paying out the tax free cash and the first instalment of an annuity paid annually. But the whole fund cannot be paid out (unless the person has died and then only in particular circumstances.)

now your getting the gist of it he is still alive and no extra money only first cheque, on turning 65 in 2006 and was then being taxed on it then it came to light

OK, this seems to suggest that when he got to 65 he then "took benefits" from the remaining part of the pensions, the protected rights bit - which is also taxable income.This also makes sense.

So the question seems to be, assuming the relatives bought an annuity with the remainder of the pension fund in 1996, why did they not ask what had happened to their income when no money arrived in theoir bank account?

as i stated above only one cheque in 1996 nothing else no benifits weekly yearly monthly, now going back to an earlier post its the second cheque in october 1996 that is curious bit who had the rest of the fund and how did they get it as my brother in law is still alive and kicking, they did quiery when no money or forms arrived after he turned 65 2 years ago but that was ten years after the first cheque was sent and assumed the rest would be paid at 65