Threatening letters from DCAs ref Elephant.co.uk

in.debt_2

Last year, I took out insurance with Elephant for my wife's car. The policy was eventually cancelled by them because we couldn't supply them with proof of no claims bonus (thanks to an argument with another insurance company, but that's a different story!).

The upshot was, we were left owing them £46.15 for the time we were on cover. I didn't have a problem with paying that, I had a problem with them sending me a letter to tell me what I owed them and adding £20 for the privelege.

When I rang them to ask them why they'd added the £20, they told me it was to cover their costs. I said I wasn't going to pay that and asked the lady on the phone to get someone to call me back when they'd seen sense.

I didn't get a phone call. Instead, I got a letter from CARS, featuring lots of BIG ANGRY RED LETTERING and an outstanding balance that had grown by another £20 to £86.15. The letter had lots of scary threats in it, including that they might "instruct a doorstep Collection Agent to make a personal visit to your premises" (which, to me at least, sounds vaguely like "pay us or we'll break your legs"), "recommend to the Client to issue a Default against you" (I guess they don't have the power to do that themselves then), or to "instruct out litigation specialists COURTLINK to commence legal action" (wow, I'm terrified now).

The day the letter arrived, I also started getting threatening phone calls from CARS, bordering on abusive. As the insurance was in my wife's name, but I'd arranged it, the only contact number they had was my mobile. So I got all the calls, which I quite enjoyed - I find it quite amusing when they're all blustery without any substance.

Anyway, I telephoned Elephant with the intention of paying the money I owe them and seeing an end to the matter. The guy at Elephant apologised for CARS and said of course they'd drop the extra £20 they'd added. He wasn't able to drop the £20 Elephant themselves had added though. A lengthy phone call ensued, with me telling them I wasn't going to pay £20 for a letter. The chap on the phone, who was very nice and trying his best to help, spoke to his supervisor and told me that the best he could offer was a £10 charge as a "goodwill gesture". I rejected that and offered £5 as a goodwill gesture of my own

All credit to him, he asked his supervisor, but the answer was no. I told him he could either take payment then and there, including the £5 I was offering, or he could supply me with various documents that (according to various websites on the internet!) Elephant were legally bound to supply to me if they'd passed my details on to a 3rd party DCA. I have no idea if that was true or not, but I figured if they were going to make me pay £10 for a letter, I'd get £10 worth of amusement from them. The poor chap on the end of the phone must have been running around like a headless chicken looking for the documents I'd listed (unfortunately, I can't remember exactly what they were), including him ending the call for half an hour while he looked and then phoning me back with the only document he could find which was nothing to do with the conversation we were having at the time!

Again, I offered to pay then and there and include the £5 I'd originally offered - or that I'd pay including the £10, but only on receipt of the documents I was requesting. He went and asked his supervisor again, but again the answer was no - and he added that his supervisor had said that they would withhold my proof of no claims from Elephant until I paid!

The chap promised to call me back the following day once he'd gathered the documents together. Surprisingly, I didn't get a phone call. Nor one the day after that.

Truth be told, I totally forgot about it, until a month later I received another letter from CARS, this time with even more shouty red text on it. In fact, this one was written almost entirely in capital letters. It told me that they would be attempting to call at our home premises between 8am and 8pm on such-and-such a date.

I told my wife that if Elephant couldn't be bothered to call me back, then I couldn't be bothered to take any notice of their bluster. I also told her that if anyone was to come round, to tell them the payment was under dispute, that I was dealing with it and then to ask them to leave our property. Nobody came to visit, unsurprisingly.

Soon after that, the phone calls started again. This time, each time somebody called me, I told them the payment was under dispute and I was waiting for Elephant to call me back. Eventually, the calls stopped.

This was all back in May/June. This week, we got a letter from Face2Face Contact, telling me it's a FINAL NOTICE and that the debt has been passed on from CARS. The amount hasn't gone up again, it's stayed at £86.15. However, I'm screwed if I'm going to pay that.

According to the letter:

"ALL offers to repay this amount MUST be received within 5 days of receipt of this letter.

Failure to comply with this request may result in us instructing our doorstep agent to visit you to collect the outstanding balance in full. No further reminders will be sent."

Now, that all seems to be a bit ambiguous. I have no intention of offering to repay that amount, so they might send someone round? The only good thing is that they won't send me any more threatening letters!

However, I don't really want some thug turning up on my doorstep and hassling my wife, especially not when she's home alone with our toddler.

So, to the reason I'm posting this epic tale. I'm looking for a letter to send back to them today that will get across the point that if anyone turns up at my door they will be asked to leave and that I'm not going to deal with anyone other than Elephant directly. Hopefully quoting lots of legislation.

I found this in another thread, which I think I'm going to include :

"Regarding your threat that a Doorstep Collector will call the owner of this property is denying you or anybody working on your behalf access onto their estate or grounds in relation to this disputed debt, should you or any agent acting for you attempt to gain access to the estate or its grounds, then you will be ignoring your denial of access and the owner of "insert your address", will take legal steps to sue both you and or your agents for trespass, please also note that having a letterbox on the property gives you or anyone working on your behalf neither implied nor expressed rights to enter the properties boundaries, again any instances of trespass WILL lead the property owner to sue both yourselves or any agents working on your behalf."

Also that I don't acknowledge ANY debt to them.

Any ideas? Apologies for the massive post, but I want to get something sent off today and I'm going to follow up with a few phone calls of my own to Elephant, I think.

Ironically, since all this has happened, I've insured my wife's new car with Elephant too - and when they asked for proof of no claims, I told them we were insured with them previously, which they checked and accepted!

Thanks for reading!

Jesthar

Well, sounds like you've been having some fun!

As far as doorstep collectors are concerned, the chances of someone actually turning up are usually fairly remote, but if they do they have the same legal rights as the paperboy (i.e. none), so you don't even have to open the door to them. The sole purpose of the threat is to intimidate people into parting with their cash.

I think there are some standard letters around here for this find of thing, but I have to confess to not knowing where they are - hopefulls someone else does!

~Jes

Numpty_Monkey

There are some letters in this thread that might be of use
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=963087

stapeley

I,m sorry but it seems abit of a waste of time on your part . Is your time not worth more , your seem to have wasted a lot of time and energy for a pitance . You had the insurance , so they are entitled to be paid . I do agree that £20 is excessive , but it could now cost you alot more in hassle . Move on , lifes too short .

in.debt_2

Yes, my time is worth a lot more - but why should I bend over and take it? Screw that, I'd rather waste my time than let them get away with this... It's the principle!

EDIT: And I've never said they aren't entitled to be paid - I've offered to pay them for the insurance, more than once. They won't accept it without their rip-off charge being attached.

sparkymark_3

send a cheque for the the amount you want to pay and see if they cash it ?