It is tough NOW. So how are we coping

ceridwen

One thing that DOES strike me about the Joseph Rowntree levels of household income necessary not to be deemed in poverty - I presume that they are counting ALL household income coming in (ie not just the salary). For those with children - there will certainly be quite a bit of income coming in over and above salary - so that needs to be factored in by households when they say "We lived okay/well on less than the Rowntree figure". Maybe they weren't living on less than the Rowntree figure at all - when taking into account ALL income coming in from ALL sources.? (just bearing in mind the calculations on another thread recently - which came to the conclusion that a single mother who was paying a pretty standard rent level and receiving the various benefits payable for having two children would be receiving the equivalent of about £25,000 pa income from the State).

The Rowntree study as well takes account of people living a "normal" life and playing a "normal" part in the activities of Society - ie having some sort of social life, buying presents when required, etc.

As a single person - I am living on less than the Rowntree study concludes is necessary - but only managing it because I no longer require any money for rent or mortgage and I have made sure that my house costs as little as possible to run on the bills front. If I had to pay rent or mortgage on the money I am on or my house was a big old draughty one requiring a lot of heat and maintenance - then I would be "tearing my hair out".

Also one has to bear in mind that some areas of the country are a lot more expensive to live in than others - don't I know it? (because I live in one of them).

The Rowntree study also assumes no financial help from anyone else on a personal level and calculates on the basis that each household is "self-sufficient" financially - ie they have to live on the income they get - with no help from others and no ability to save money by growing their own food. Many people simply don't get any help to speak of from others - single people for instance don't (whereas the average family - on a personal level - get loads of "pass-ons" of childrens clothes/toys/etc from others and grandparents buying some of the goods their grandchildren need - thus saving quite a bit of their own income having to be spent on these things). Many people get little or no savings on foodcosts by growing their own - because they have little or no garden available for foodgrowing.

EDIT: That's not in any way belittling the fact that poverty in this country is normally of the "relative poverty" type - rather than the "absolute poverty" experienced in some other countries. Obviously we are all (I hope!!) well aware that many in other countries literally don't get enough to eat/have to spend hours a day walking to fetch water (rather than just being able to switch on a tap - as we can)/etc. The Rowntree study is just referring to relative standards of living in THIS country - and part of the reason this study is done is in order to ensure that benefits/State Pensions are kept at a level that people in THIS country aren't forced into a situation of "absolute poverty". (Remembers my Sociology studies and the basis for the thinking behind this study - ie way of thinking of the Church it (and I) "originated from".)

ceridwen

katholicos wrote: »

There's no way that it costs £10 to drive you to and from a vet just a few miles away. You could probably get a taxi for less. Frankly I find it shocking that your son expects you to pay. Have you asked him to pay back all the money it cost to raise him, clothe him, feed him, take him where he needed to go etc?

It's one thing for a passenger, family member or not, to offer a contribution or good will payment, but it's quite another to request it. If the shoe were on the other foot, would you charge him? Of course not....and as for looking after his dog at any point in the future I wouldn't hesitate to say 'no!' in a very loud and clear voice.

£9.40 for a taxi to go 3.8 miles the other day - so I made that £10 - if anyone wants a price comparison....(distance checked on Googlemaps in advance).

Larumbelle

But if you look at the report, it actually tells you the hourly wage that would have to be earned on top of benefits. Their figures assume that individuals/couples are already in receipt of all eligible benefits. The hourly rate required (and for couples it assumed both were working full time) in every instance is far above the minimum wage. So people saying that 'we can live comfortably on less' aren't conveniently forgetting their benefits - the earning rates needed are shown on the report just as prominently as the annual income figures.

But I still have a problem with Rowntree's methodology, and I think it goes a long way to explaining why so many of us can manage on far less. I haven't had a chance to go through it thoroughly yet, but one thing I noticed is that "the panel" decided that having a computer and internet was a necessity for all those of working age (though not pensioners, funnily enough). So they added £390 for a new computer each year. Then they decided that a 'bundle' of phone, internet and TV was the 'most efficient' way of getting this, so factored in a year's 'basic bundle'.

Now, I am all for ensuring that the minimum wage is set at a living wage, and my natural inclination is to support anyone trying to achieve this, but nobody needs a new computer each year. (In fact I don't think anyone needs a new computer full stop, unless it is for their job. Second hand ones are more than adequate for surfing, listening to music and word processing. Even for games and graphic design packages so long as you're not going for the newest ones). You certainly wouldn't need one each year. And nobody needs a landline phone AND a mobile (the report includes for both) or Sky TV. As a matter of fact I don't really even agree that anyone needs internet. Did anyone notice my little year-long hiatus from this site? (Go on, say yes ) That was because I couldn't afford the internet and I got rid of it because it was a luxury. I'm still alive and so far as I'm aware, I managed to participate fully in society during this time :rolleyes:

Gigervamp

I agree Silvercharming. Another thing included in the list of *necessities* is a week long UK holiday, which, whilst it would be nice, I don't consider it a necessity.

alec_eiffel

The_Thrilla wrote: »

Yes, the programme did mention Mary Queen of Charity Shops, and they played a clip where this woman - I suspect this will be Mary - was complaining about the goods in one shop being all over the place. The manager of the shop said that the staff were volunteers, and he left them to get on with it. Mary said that this was not good enough. I'm afraid I don't know what the thing was about; but I would tend to agree with the manager: you've got to be nice to volunteers.

It's a massive balancing act, and difficult to not just get sucked into thinking it would be easier and quicker to do everything yourself. It's all about making people want to work for you and doing what you want them to without alienating them. Volunteers often care more about the charity than the manager and I've worked with some who have been around for over 20 years. You can't just ride roughshod over them, but you can't let them do the same to you either. It's a lovely, frustrating, tea and biscuit fuelled battle.

cbsexec

sorry to but in on your thread (which I read everyday) but I think it is easier now for families who can at least manage some work because of Working Tax Credit etc. When my children were young (one only 6 weeks) and my oh was made redundant we only had £35 pw unemployment because I had a p/t job which paid something like £20 pw. (and we paid a mortgage - no help) If WTC had existed it would have made life 10 times easier. ( I had to find a couple of cleaning jobs as well). Mind you I don't think we suffered too much - just did without and managed.

Larumbelle

cbsexec wrote: »

sorry to but in on your thread (which I read everyday)

You're not butting in, it's a thread for everyone

annie123

Sorry to go back to shopping prices, but when did Stardrops goes up?
Popped to MrS to get some this morning as I forgot it the other day and it said £1.34 :eek:on the shelf but scanned at £1.13 :eek:
it's not the larger bottle either still the 600ml one.
Now I know it lasts ages, but I'm sure I only paid 60-70p last time, I remember when I first discovered it many years ago it was 15p a bottle:D
Have I just paid way over for it? or is this the cost now?

beingfrugal

I don't know whether I've come across this board (and embraced the ideas with open arms) because of the possible problems in the near future or whether psychologically I wanted a change because of the financial problems I went through last year.

I would like to think I would be here if there hadn't been the budget that has just been as I feel I needed the change.

I have totally changed from the person I was back last year and I seriously mean that. I'm a 'nicer' person having gone through adversity. I believe living frugally is helping me to get back to my roots, forgetting all the wasteful and selfish attitudes I aquired growing up in my teens and twenties. I am thankful for my adversity in some stupidly strange way. Its made me responsible. Every thing that I do is my fault, I'm careful now, in every way possible. That's why i'm 'nicer' in every way possible.

ginnyknit

I wouldn't be suprised if its gone up Annie, I thought the prices hikes would be a couple of pennies but they seem to be 10p and more. My last visit to Mr T's was punctuated by me going 'bl***y he** thats gone up!' You could maybe find it in one of the cheap shops and stock up a bit. My Dd and partner have gone for a well earned break( a real bargain too) leaving us with tiny grandson, before daddy goes to war so we have a cheaper week this week and Im going bargain hunting tomorrow to stock up on essentials. did Aldi the other day now its Home bargains and poundland next. Thank god its raining a bit so my veg will grow fatser before the hosepipe ban on Friday, am already pouring every bit of washing up water into buckets but its going to mean a lot of lugging but hey its worth it!