NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

KingVardas

Hi grandad (I'm one myself)
It all looks a bit daunting at first but actually turns out to be quite easy. First, take how much in total you have with the PMS. You then go to a table they provide - and there you can find out what percentage you get back on your shares and then you add that to the 85% you get back on the loan notes you have. I think it will be different for everyone but I have worked out the minimum return in the particular case for us, which is quite a lot more than the 77% minimum they have given. It says it is not possible to list what every single person will get.

Jock221

Hi there I have just got my documents and to be honest can't work out what I'll get can some knowledge person help. I already got back 12% in the pay out last year I am in the 20-50 bracket and voting yes as it's the only deal were going to get. I see if we force a fire sale we wi get 72% and shareholders will get nothing. It's all a bit complicated or is it just me.

brick

Worked example for fictitious saver with £20K SHARE capital and £25K LOAN capital. i.e. TOTAL SAVINGS of £45K.

Table in paragraph 2 on P4 indicates that the saver (falling into £40,001-£50,000 TOTAL bracket) will get 75% of their £20K SHARE capital. i.e. £15K.

Also, paragraph 1 on P3 indicates saver will get back 85% of their £25K LOAN capital. i.e. £21,250.

In total, this fictitious saver gets back £36,250 of their £45K in a matter of months. i.e. 80.6%.

And I think that is the short term MINIMUM return.
Someone else can comment wrt return of the other (deferred) 15% of the LOAN capital, and potentially more of the SHARE capital. Table on P17 presumably comes into play?

If I'm wrong let me know and I will correct or remove.

pensiongone

brick wrote: »

Worked example for fictitious saver with £20K SHARE capital and £25K LOAN capital. i.e. TOTAL SAVINGS of £45K.

Brick
In your worked example
Does the fictitious saver have £45K remaining after the 12% payment , or a total of £45K when PMS went into administration?

I can't find any clear indication on this
But the whole thing is as clear as mud to me.

Thanks

brick

pensiongone wrote: »

Does the fictitious saver have £45K remaining after the 12% payment , or a total of £45K when PMS went into administration?

I did the example thinking it was the latter, but having looked through some old paperwork I suspect the former. So I will remove any reference to the earlier distribution from my example.

KingVardas

Brick has worked it out exactly the way we have - and I think it is a perfect example. The document refers on the very first page to "outstanding debts" of creditors. That can mean only one thing - a % of the debt that is owed now, not what we were owed at the beginning. Forget the previous 12p payment, it wouldn't make any sense at all otherwise. Go with Brick's system on the basis of what you are owed today.

PCI.U.O.Me

I'll throw this into the mix and tell me if I've got this right. Someone with a total holding of £20,000 (shares only) will get back at least £19,400, but if you were unfortunate enough to hold, in total £20,001 (£20,000 in shares and £1 in loan notes) you would be back £17,400.85......£2000.00 less than the first group, for the sake of £1 over, surely that can't be correct?

goodbyepci

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/pms-savers-to-get-77-savings-back-15139665.html

BETRAYED

In case I mislay my voting form I have detached my meeting invitation (don't think I'll be going) at the bottom, voted " YES" and returned my form first class post.

Anyone who considers voting "no" or raising any legal challenge could only be compared to 'a turkey voting for Christmas'.

Excap123

abeliever wrote: »

Does the fictitious saver have £45K remaining after the 12% payment , or a total of £45K when PMS went into administration?

From "The Scheme"

At page 24 - "Deferred Creditor Balance" means 15% of the Scheme Creditors Agreed Administration Claims which will be deferred....

Again at page 24 - "Agreed Administration Claims" means the claims against the Society submitted by Scheme members & Scheme Creditors ....

This says to me that, for savings of £45k when PMS went into administration, you will get back 85% of the £25k Loan Capital in total. (Having previously had 12% you will get a further 73%). So for savings of £45k at Nov 2008, receive 75% of Share Capital (£15k) plus 85% of Loan Capital (£21.25) or £36.25k in total (£3k already received + £33.25k in Jun/July).

Is there not a risk of overcompicating this? The thing says "creditors will be paid 100% of their outstanding debts ..; but will defer 15% of that amount" So it is a percentage of what we are owed NOW, nothing to do with the original amount.