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PLEASE HELP - worried, anxious, fretting
swells_2
Posts: 19 Forumite
How do I start this – I am ashamed, I am sad, worried, anxious, totally at a loss at what to do – Please Help.
Firstly I would like to say that I always wondered why anyone could let themselves get into such a financial mess that they needed to go bankrupt – well now I know how it happens and I am ashamed that I thought ill of other people. In order for you to help me I need to explain what has happened over the years so that you can understand how we have reached this moment where all we can see is bankruptcy.
My husband and I have been together 14 years (both having had previous marriages). When I first met him he was facing bankruptcy then but by sheer hard work, and effort we managed to pull him out of it and out the other side. We have, over the years managed to get our credit ratings right up at the excellent score of 480 -500. My husband is a management consultant/interim manager and over the 14 years we have had a mix of famine and feast (often the case with this type of work). I have worked in either PAYE or as an interim manager. Over the past 7 years we have had a nuber of real problems which has all helped towards where we are today. My husband had a very serious accoident when he almost lost his leg but in the end it was saved (after having 5 operations over a period of 6 months). The result of this was that he could not work nor do any business development for around 8 months which then had a knock on effect for the next year. He then lost around 70% of his Equitable pension so at 60 he drew just £18k cash lump sum and is now left with a pension of £3k per annum less tax. If Equitable had not gone down then the resulting cash lump sum would have been far greater and of more use in paying off debt. I also had a serious accident when my achilles snapped. My husband also had to go through a financial settlement with his ex-wife who wanted nothing to do with it initially. We needed the settlement because we did not want her having any claim on anything that ‘we’ had in later years. His wife had already taken over the mortgage on their property (in which there was little equity when they split) so there was no settlement as such just the legal bit of paper saying that what’s hers is hers and what was Chris was his. This cost us £10,800 to finalise (money which could have gone to better use in paying off debt – but at least she was out of the way and we could stop worrying about her). My husband and I have always worked, paid full National Insurance and Income Tax and on checking with DHSS we find that we have paid the maximum amount of NI to pay out full pensions to both of us individually at retirement. We have NEVER claimed benefit or Social Security even through the hard times (in retrospect perhaps we should have). The worst problems really started in November 2006 when my husband finished one role and started looking for another. Between November 2006 and March 2008 he wrote some 800 job/contract applications. He was called for 3 interviews and was rejected because he was over qualified. It may also have been because of his age although at 61 he looks a lot younger so I may be mistaken there. He managed to secure 2 weeks work in October 2007 (for £200 per day) and then had a further 12 or so days in Jan / Feb at £400 per day – so he earned about £7k over a 17 month period. I had worked on an interim job for 6 months on 2007 which ended in Sept and then started another role in the following March for a further 6 months – it was these jobs that kept us going together with a couple of loans!!! We were always thinking that things would change soon – they always had before but this time we were wrong. Anyway – in March this year my husband was contacted about a job in the Middle East and after a few interviews he was offered a 2 year contract. This was going to pay him £4k per month plus accommodation (a small flat). Obviously he had to take it even though I had just started a job in the Uk and because we needed the money I had to stay and complete the contract. It was terrible for both of us being 3500 miles apart but needs must and we got on with it – both very unhappy and miserable. Anyway – the first week he was away I opened the post and found a letter saying a direct debit had been returned by the bank. I looked online and found that several dd’s had been returned. I phoned the call centre and was told that ALL my dd’s had been cancelled. I was totally knocked back and after a few heated words I had to put the phone down as I was becoming upset and had started crying. Shortly afterwards I had severe chest pain which I put down to stress (I didn’t tell my husband as I didn’t want to cause him any undue stress having just started his new job). Anyway… I called the bank the day after, spoke to a nice lady who told me that they shouldn’t have cancelled everything, that they should have called me and that she would re-instate everything and send letters out to everyone. They did write to some but not many and so I had to make at least 30 calls to re-instate dd’s. I also incurred charges from the bank and default charges from some of the dd companies where they had been returned. All this after I had been with my bank for over 20 years and had had such a fantastic relationship with them during that time. It was only because I had moved 200 miles away that I had become an ‘automated’ client – no more personal service. Anyway … the problems started then and I am still having problems with one of the credit card companies. We have kept jogging along this year and with my earnings in the UK we have kept up to date with everything (although on some of my cc’s I pay almost as much in interest as I do minimum payment). I moved out to be with my husband again in September and am now looking for a job here in the Middle East – no luck yet but I am ever hopeful. At least now we are together again which is the main thing. But now I am not earning we are becoming short of cash again and also because I am remote I could not easily access my online business account quickly enough to stop it going over the overdraft limit by about £40. I have just had friends over who brought all my post – in there was a letter from my bank saying they are worried about my overdraft and that they are going to charge me a further £50 per month to monitor it (why not pile on more debt!)… I also had a letter from one of my cc companies saying that they are putting up the rate to 32.9%!!!!! Well the combination of these two has just about finished me off – I just can’t cope with it any longer, I am weary, I feel that I am thwarted at every turn, I am trying my best to keep on top of things but extortionate interest rates are just killing us. So we have thought (reluctantly) about bankruptcy. We have no assets as we re-mortaged our property in the UK in July last year with Northern Rock (a Together mortage which gave us £30k loan on top – which gave us breathing money to keep going thinking that things would get better soon). Our property is only worth now apx. £140K. We have 2 old vehicles. The only money we do have is in a property in Turkey. The property is in my name only and both my father and son have money in the property (although as I say it is in my name). The land the property is on is part of a piece of land owned by a 3rd party and we cannot sell without his permission. To raise my part of the equity from my father and son would be nigh on impossible and the Turkish property market is probably in a worse state than the UK with too many builders building too many houses too quickly which has resulted in a huge surplus of property and no one wanting to buy them. So selling the house would be very difficult anyway. I also would not want my father having to know about any of this as he is 78, has had cancer and a heart attack and the shame and worry of it would just about finish him off.
So – HELP NEEDED PLEASE. We have around £200,000 in debt (not including our mortgage). We do not want to walk away from our debts but we need help to get us out of this physically and mentally draining life we are existing in… I do not sleep half the night worrying about all of this. We do not need a credit rating in the UK antmore as we will probably never live their again - although we would like to visit relatives (I presume this would not be a problem?). We can pay around £3k per month for several years – will this be seen as OK?. Can we be imprisoned for any of this? I am worried that as we have got ourselves further into debt by borrowing to keep us afloat that the court will think really badly of us. I am sure you can see how worried we are. My questions are listed below. I apologise for the length of this post.
1) Can we file for bankruptcy from abroad or do we have to be in UK?
2) How long do we have to be in UK? My husband cannot afford to be away and lose his job – that would just about finish us off. Would I be able to do everything on our behalf? We would struggle to cover cost of flights but may be able to squeeze it out of the next 2 months money.
3) What records do the courts/Official receiver need to see... I presume credit card statements/ bank account statements etc... how far do they go back - 6 months? a year? 2 years? etc - if we can go bankcrupt from abroad then can they get the information they need from the cc companies/ banks direct?
4) If we go bankcrupt does anything show on your passport - ie: could someone abroad see that you are a bankcrupt?
5) We do not want to just walk away from our debts – we can probably afford to pay £3k per month for at least 2 years and probably more. The company my husband is working for have already suggested that he stays on after his 2 year contract so we may be able to pay for 3 or more years. We know that we have had the money so we do feel responsibility for paying it back. It is just the interest that is killing us. I know £36k per year for 4 years is only £144k against a debt of £200k but would a court think that is reasonable or would they take our pensions when they become payable etc?
6) Our property in the UK is mortgaged with northern Rock (took out Together mortgage in July 2007 which included £30k loan – so outstanding to NR is apx. £170k and property is now only worth apx. £140k (or less) because of current housing trend. Even letting it out would only bring in around £500 per month.
7) How would the court and Official Receiver look on the property in Turkey? We know of someone who owned a property there outright but the O.R. said he wouldn’t even touch it and so they kept their property. I don’t know what their indebtedness was (which may have been a factor) or whether it is because Turkey is outside the EEC and poses problems. We would have problems anyway because of the factors I have mentioned already.
8) Would we have to sell our car (19 years old and worth apx. £300) and our motorbike (10 years old and worth apx. £800)?
9) Can you be sent to prison for bankruptcy? (for allowing yourself to get into a mess and taking loans to help keep you afloat etc?).
PLEASE PLEASE Let us have any advice.
S.
Firstly I would like to say that I always wondered why anyone could let themselves get into such a financial mess that they needed to go bankrupt – well now I know how it happens and I am ashamed that I thought ill of other people. In order for you to help me I need to explain what has happened over the years so that you can understand how we have reached this moment where all we can see is bankruptcy.
My husband and I have been together 14 years (both having had previous marriages). When I first met him he was facing bankruptcy then but by sheer hard work, and effort we managed to pull him out of it and out the other side. We have, over the years managed to get our credit ratings right up at the excellent score of 480 -500. My husband is a management consultant/interim manager and over the 14 years we have had a mix of famine and feast (often the case with this type of work). I have worked in either PAYE or as an interim manager. Over the past 7 years we have had a nuber of real problems which has all helped towards where we are today. My husband had a very serious accoident when he almost lost his leg but in the end it was saved (after having 5 operations over a period of 6 months). The result of this was that he could not work nor do any business development for around 8 months which then had a knock on effect for the next year. He then lost around 70% of his Equitable pension so at 60 he drew just £18k cash lump sum and is now left with a pension of £3k per annum less tax. If Equitable had not gone down then the resulting cash lump sum would have been far greater and of more use in paying off debt. I also had a serious accident when my achilles snapped. My husband also had to go through a financial settlement with his ex-wife who wanted nothing to do with it initially. We needed the settlement because we did not want her having any claim on anything that ‘we’ had in later years. His wife had already taken over the mortgage on their property (in which there was little equity when they split) so there was no settlement as such just the legal bit of paper saying that what’s hers is hers and what was Chris was his. This cost us £10,800 to finalise (money which could have gone to better use in paying off debt – but at least she was out of the way and we could stop worrying about her). My husband and I have always worked, paid full National Insurance and Income Tax and on checking with DHSS we find that we have paid the maximum amount of NI to pay out full pensions to both of us individually at retirement. We have NEVER claimed benefit or Social Security even through the hard times (in retrospect perhaps we should have). The worst problems really started in November 2006 when my husband finished one role and started looking for another. Between November 2006 and March 2008 he wrote some 800 job/contract applications. He was called for 3 interviews and was rejected because he was over qualified. It may also have been because of his age although at 61 he looks a lot younger so I may be mistaken there. He managed to secure 2 weeks work in October 2007 (for £200 per day) and then had a further 12 or so days in Jan / Feb at £400 per day – so he earned about £7k over a 17 month period. I had worked on an interim job for 6 months on 2007 which ended in Sept and then started another role in the following March for a further 6 months – it was these jobs that kept us going together with a couple of loans!!! We were always thinking that things would change soon – they always had before but this time we were wrong. Anyway – in March this year my husband was contacted about a job in the Middle East and after a few interviews he was offered a 2 year contract. This was going to pay him £4k per month plus accommodation (a small flat). Obviously he had to take it even though I had just started a job in the Uk and because we needed the money I had to stay and complete the contract. It was terrible for both of us being 3500 miles apart but needs must and we got on with it – both very unhappy and miserable. Anyway – the first week he was away I opened the post and found a letter saying a direct debit had been returned by the bank. I looked online and found that several dd’s had been returned. I phoned the call centre and was told that ALL my dd’s had been cancelled. I was totally knocked back and after a few heated words I had to put the phone down as I was becoming upset and had started crying. Shortly afterwards I had severe chest pain which I put down to stress (I didn’t tell my husband as I didn’t want to cause him any undue stress having just started his new job). Anyway… I called the bank the day after, spoke to a nice lady who told me that they shouldn’t have cancelled everything, that they should have called me and that she would re-instate everything and send letters out to everyone. They did write to some but not many and so I had to make at least 30 calls to re-instate dd’s. I also incurred charges from the bank and default charges from some of the dd companies where they had been returned. All this after I had been with my bank for over 20 years and had had such a fantastic relationship with them during that time. It was only because I had moved 200 miles away that I had become an ‘automated’ client – no more personal service. Anyway … the problems started then and I am still having problems with one of the credit card companies. We have kept jogging along this year and with my earnings in the UK we have kept up to date with everything (although on some of my cc’s I pay almost as much in interest as I do minimum payment). I moved out to be with my husband again in September and am now looking for a job here in the Middle East – no luck yet but I am ever hopeful. At least now we are together again which is the main thing. But now I am not earning we are becoming short of cash again and also because I am remote I could not easily access my online business account quickly enough to stop it going over the overdraft limit by about £40. I have just had friends over who brought all my post – in there was a letter from my bank saying they are worried about my overdraft and that they are going to charge me a further £50 per month to monitor it (why not pile on more debt!)… I also had a letter from one of my cc companies saying that they are putting up the rate to 32.9%!!!!! Well the combination of these two has just about finished me off – I just can’t cope with it any longer, I am weary, I feel that I am thwarted at every turn, I am trying my best to keep on top of things but extortionate interest rates are just killing us. So we have thought (reluctantly) about bankruptcy. We have no assets as we re-mortaged our property in the UK in July last year with Northern Rock (a Together mortage which gave us £30k loan on top – which gave us breathing money to keep going thinking that things would get better soon). Our property is only worth now apx. £140K. We have 2 old vehicles. The only money we do have is in a property in Turkey. The property is in my name only and both my father and son have money in the property (although as I say it is in my name). The land the property is on is part of a piece of land owned by a 3rd party and we cannot sell without his permission. To raise my part of the equity from my father and son would be nigh on impossible and the Turkish property market is probably in a worse state than the UK with too many builders building too many houses too quickly which has resulted in a huge surplus of property and no one wanting to buy them. So selling the house would be very difficult anyway. I also would not want my father having to know about any of this as he is 78, has had cancer and a heart attack and the shame and worry of it would just about finish him off.
So – HELP NEEDED PLEASE. We have around £200,000 in debt (not including our mortgage). We do not want to walk away from our debts but we need help to get us out of this physically and mentally draining life we are existing in… I do not sleep half the night worrying about all of this. We do not need a credit rating in the UK antmore as we will probably never live their again - although we would like to visit relatives (I presume this would not be a problem?). We can pay around £3k per month for several years – will this be seen as OK?. Can we be imprisoned for any of this? I am worried that as we have got ourselves further into debt by borrowing to keep us afloat that the court will think really badly of us. I am sure you can see how worried we are. My questions are listed below. I apologise for the length of this post.
1) Can we file for bankruptcy from abroad or do we have to be in UK?
2) How long do we have to be in UK? My husband cannot afford to be away and lose his job – that would just about finish us off. Would I be able to do everything on our behalf? We would struggle to cover cost of flights but may be able to squeeze it out of the next 2 months money.
3) What records do the courts/Official receiver need to see... I presume credit card statements/ bank account statements etc... how far do they go back - 6 months? a year? 2 years? etc - if we can go bankcrupt from abroad then can they get the information they need from the cc companies/ banks direct?
4) If we go bankcrupt does anything show on your passport - ie: could someone abroad see that you are a bankcrupt?
5) We do not want to just walk away from our debts – we can probably afford to pay £3k per month for at least 2 years and probably more. The company my husband is working for have already suggested that he stays on after his 2 year contract so we may be able to pay for 3 or more years. We know that we have had the money so we do feel responsibility for paying it back. It is just the interest that is killing us. I know £36k per year for 4 years is only £144k against a debt of £200k but would a court think that is reasonable or would they take our pensions when they become payable etc?
6) Our property in the UK is mortgaged with northern Rock (took out Together mortgage in July 2007 which included £30k loan – so outstanding to NR is apx. £170k and property is now only worth apx. £140k (or less) because of current housing trend. Even letting it out would only bring in around £500 per month.
7) How would the court and Official Receiver look on the property in Turkey? We know of someone who owned a property there outright but the O.R. said he wouldn’t even touch it and so they kept their property. I don’t know what their indebtedness was (which may have been a factor) or whether it is because Turkey is outside the EEC and poses problems. We would have problems anyway because of the factors I have mentioned already.
8) Would we have to sell our car (19 years old and worth apx. £300) and our motorbike (10 years old and worth apx. £800)?
9) Can you be sent to prison for bankruptcy? (for allowing yourself to get into a mess and taking loans to help keep you afloat etc?).
PLEASE PLEASE Let us have any advice.
S.
0
Comments
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Welcome to the forum, I know how you feel right now, I joined this forum a few weeks ago and it was the best thing I ever did. These guys on here are brilliant and they will help you. You need to call CCCS, National Debt Line or CAB. Get as much advice as you can.
The majority of people on this forum have all been where you and I are, scared. Take a deep breath and don't panic. Share everything with your husband, I didn't.
Keep posting, you have made a fantastic start and you will come out the other side.0 -
Hi and welcome swells! What a story! My first advice would be to talk to one of the debt charities like CCCS, National Debtline or CAB. You can find their contact numbers on the front page of this forum.
Secondly you have not commited a crime so you cannot go to prison. Debt is a civil matter not criminal! Nothing would get stamped in your passport either. Your situation seems to be a bit complicated regarding pensions etc. but you need to ask yourself - what if...
you paid £3,00 per month for 3-4 years and then had to become bankrupt - you would have been better off saving that money for your future.
something happened to either of you in that time and you couldn't continue paying, that money would have been a little nest egg.
Not sure of your property in Turkey
Not sure if you can petition from abroad (although this has been asked on here before, I just can't remember how it works.
To be honest if you have no intention of coming back here for the next 6 years I don't see why you don't just hand your keys back to mortgage company (I think they can chase you for 13 years or so). As for the credit cards and loans, they can only chase you for 6 years. If you do come back within that time you wouldn't be silly enough to write to them and let them know, what are the chances of them finding you.
THis advice is just my thinking at the moment and I'm sure many people on here will be shocked that I am giving this advice but you really have to look out for what is best for you and your husband and explore all your options!
See what CCCS or National Debtline have to say about how safe your pensions are etc and gather as much information as you can before making any decisions.
:j :j
0 -
I had to declare myself bankrupt 4th Feb this year. Best thing I ever did. I'd been lying awake at night for months worrying about where the next payments were going to come from and I too had taken out loans and overdrafts to keep myself afloat. February 4th was a turning point and I have slept soundly since. It's a simple process and one that you should not be ashamed of. It happens. This forum helped me through the process and I am so thankful for it. Christmas last year was a very dark period of my life when I was about to order some presents online and found I had no money to buy any presents. I rang National Debt Helpline and they advised bankruptcy was my only option. I would ring the Insolvency Service I were you as they could also help you. Debt counselling is great and they are usually people who have been there before so they know what you're going through. The CAB are helping my friend go thru a bankruptcy and have even completed the papers for her. They have said most of their cases are based on some kind of insolvency so they could give you more specialist advice.
All I can say is, it may seem like the end of things being bankrupt, but it really isn't. It's the start.0 -
:hello: Hello there and welcome to the site.
Please dont worry too much, so many people on here are willing and able to help. There is no need to feel ashamed, it happens to the best of people.
I think you should be proud of yourself, posting all this, you have taken the first step. and please be reassured you will not be put into prison.
have a cuppa and wait for the help. it wont be longmake the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
and we will never, ever return.0 -
Hi Swells
I'm a newbie on the forum, so no wise advice to impart. Just to say this is the best place to be if you're looking for information and support.
Good luck
D*0 -
Hi and welcome... like everyone else has said there's a lot of helpful people here
Bit of reading here that might help a bit in the meantime!
http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/foreignissues.htm:hello:Save a little money each month and at the end of the year you’ll be surprised at how little you have.An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind0 -
bump!!!!!!!!!make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
and we will never, ever return.0 -
Hi Swells,
Sounds like you have had a tough time.
As already advised the debt counselling charities can advise initially but I think you will be passed on to more specialised advisor
If you can pay 3k a month you never know you might be one of the few people that could benefit from an IVA......there I've said it!!
It will be worth looking into as you do have assets to protect (however diminished) and you have a surplus after expenses so it might be the way to go.
An IVA clears your debt at an agreed rate over a 5 year period (your creditors getting a percentage in the pound pro rata of your total debt and the account manager takes his share but that's included in the agreed monthly payments) you get to keep your assets and you are not examined to the extent you are with B.R. (not by the courts anyway) It's legally binding to both sides.
If you do have disposable income but not enough to cover your payments then it seems logical to look into this option.
Beware though....... you must seek advice from a one of the Independent Debt counselling services recommended on this site as there is a lot of money to be made by the account managers from IVA's and some will...well they're salesman ...nuff said.
Good luck and keep us posted:beer:Officially B.R 08.09.08 :beer:0 -
hi again Swells, you are presumably new (a newbie) to the forum seeing as i can see its your first post.
If you think any of the posts have helped its normal to press the 'thanks'
button.
Hang in there and keep us postedmake the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
and we will never, ever return.0 -
Hi to all who have responded. I am unsure whether my Thanks's have got through - I have been clicking on the Thanks button but according to anniehanlon they must not have been registering for some reason. I thought I would try this to say a gloabal thanks to everyone and perhaps someone can tell me what I am doing wrong. Thanks S0
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