BR / Volun Repo Court Hearing!! Oh, and 7 questions...

Rosey321

Hi all

We went BR back in May, offering our house up for voluntary repo. We have been renting since and to date, had not heard anything about the old house as our mail redirection ended a couple of months back. All along, the mortgage company have been refusing to go down the voluntary repo route because we’ve refused to accept liability for any shortfall. I’ve told them instead that the OR has confirmed it will be included in the BR which they have always ignored insisting that we will be pursued for it.

Anyway, last night, I thought I’d take a trip back to the old place to see if any relevant post had arrived. Although we handed the keys back to the lender, we recently got another set back from the estate agents who were trying to sell it before we went BR.

I pushed back the door with force – I had to as five months of free newspapers had built up! I felt like a trespasser, but I thought it was OK as the place was still legally ours in effect as they refused to repossess down the voluntary route!

Amongst the mail was a mountain of post threatening to repossess us and finally – there was a letter sent notifying us of a repossession hearing – next Tuesday!!!

Quite laughably, the claimant has stated in their court proceedings that they ‘have no idea of the defendants financial situation’. Amazing as I’ve told them about 5 times and they have also sent a letter to us confirming receipt of our keys.

I have no intention or desire to defend the case so hopefully they will award the property to the lender sooner rather than later.

I have questions though:

• Should I respond to the court stating that I don’t wish to defend the case or should I do nothing as if I’d never seen the letter (which if it had been another week up the line would have been the case.
• As I’m not defending, I don’t need to go to the hearing do I?
• There are court fees of £100 attached. Am I liable for that?
• The OR has an interest in the property and there is an order that the house cannot be sold without OR permission. This shouldn’t affect the repossession should it? I imagine it’s so the lender can’t sell for a lesser value.
• Is it worth checking that the OR is even aware of the hearing? If they claim to be ‘unaware of our financial position’, I imagine the OR has not been told – or would the court themselves know our position?
• Do our secure debts become unsecure at the point of repossession or at the moment the lender sells the house? Ie will the lender finally start dealing with OR directly. Not sure how the shortfall thing works and what point they realise I’m no longer liable and that they should deal with OR directly.
• On a slightly different note, we have not paid any council tax on the property since we moved out in May. Instead, we have been paying as appropriate on our new rented property. Should we have been keeping up payments on the old property too and are we still liable in any way for this? As we moved out voluntarily, I just stopped all payments without a second thought. I’ve read something about exemptions for repossessed properties.

Phew! That’s all I think. Any advice would be much appreciated. Hopefully, this can be the process that finally lifts a big, big weight off of our shoulders so I want to make sure I get everything right.

Thanks in advance as always for any input.

ems08_2

i cant help in anway at all on this, but would be very interested in some answers because this is all going to be applicable to me.

emx

Rosey321

Just to quickly answer a couple of my own questions: just spoken to OR. She has said that the hearing itself is of no particular interest, however once I receive a notice after the hearing, I could send this to her and she would add to my file.
She spoke with the mortgage lender this money apparently - they have confirmed that they do have the keys. She has asked that they contact her once the house is sold and she will add any debt onto the BR.

She has confirmed no need to worry and otherwise all is processing nicely.

Re: the hearing, I've just typed a letter which I'll send to the court. I gather from looking at other web pages that if we don't turn up, they will have no option but to grant a repossession order for 28 days time. In my letter, I have stated that they can grant the order for immediate effect if they like!!
I dare say 28 days is the law so that will probably be the likely verdict.
I'll keep you posted though.

dodecanese

Thanks for posting this Rosey, please keep posting as to what happens.
Im in a very similar position- bankrupt in March, about to leave mortgaged house for rented in next couple of weeks for rented.
I expect Ive got plenty of "fun and games" to come. So far the main mortgage holder dosn't appear to have cottoned on to the fact Im 2 months in arrears- the secured loan (First Plus), did ring and ask about the payment- theyv'e since gone quiet.
I'm expecting the secured creds to come down on me like a ton of bricks any day now.

I expect quite a few people who post on/read this board will find your experiences very useful.
All the best

sandywindsor

Rosey321 wrote: »

Just to quickly answer a couple of my own questions: just spoken to OR. She has said that the hearing itself is of no particular interest, however once I receive a notice after the hearing, I could send this to her and she would add to my file.
She spoke with the mortgage lender this money apparently - they have confirmed that they do have the keys. She has asked that they contact her once the house is sold and she will add any debt onto the BR.

She has confirmed no need to worry and otherwise all is processing nicely.

Re: the hearing, I've just typed a letter which I'll send to the court. I gather from looking at other web pages that if we don't turn up, they will have no option but to grant a repossession order for 28 days time. In my letter, I have stated that they can grant the order for immediate effect if they like!!
I dare say 28 days is the law so that will probably be the likely verdict.
I'll keep you posted though.

Hi rosey
your lucky to talk to you OR I only get an answer phone!

She doesn't even reply to my emails.
My letter didn't state an option to not attend and as I will be moving before 28 day deadline (December 23rd!!!)I think I will just return forms without full I&E details...no need for them:D

Sandy

positivestep_2

Dodecanese - Thank you for posting a reply on this thread as I may end up in a similar position as you. I have a mortgage and a secured loan with Firstplus. When you stopped the mortgage and Firstplus payments, did the OR allow you to keep that money to save for a deposit on your new rental property or did they take the money from you?

Richard_S

Rosey321 wrote: »

Hi all


I have questions though:

• Should I respond to the court stating that I don’t wish to defend the case or should I do nothing as if I’d never seen the letter (which if it had been another week up the line would have been the case.No need to do anything. I'd write to the Court and inform tham that I wasn't going to contest the order, but there's no requirement or benefit from doing that.
  
• As I’m not defending, I don’t need to go to the hearing do I?Nope!! It's not really going to achieve anything positive if you do go.
  
• There are court fees of £100 attached. Am I liable for that?That will be included in your bankruptcy.
  
• The OR has an interest in the property and there is an order that the house cannot be sold without OR permission. This shouldn’t affect the repossession should it? I imagine it’s so the lender can’t sell for a lesser value.That won't affect the repossession order, and there's no reason why the lender would want to sell at less than its market price, so the O.R won't object to any subsequent sale.
  
• Is it worth checking that the OR is even aware of the hearing? If they claim to be ‘unaware of our financial position’, I imagine the OR has not been told – or would the court themselves know our position?It's always worth keeping the O.R abreast of developments, and you are required to inform them of any change in circumstances.
  
• Do our secure debts become unsecure at the point of repossession or at the moment the lender sells the house? Ie will the lender finally start dealing with OR directly. Not sure how the shortfall thing works and what point they realise I’m no longer liable and that they should deal with OR directly.Any shortfall to secured creditors will be covered by your bankruptcy. It's not that they become unsecured, it's a case of you not being liable for them. Their only redress is the property and they can't pursue you personally.
  
• On a slightly different note, we have not paid any council tax on the property since we moved out in May. Instead, we have been paying as appropriate on our new rented property. Should we have been keeping up payments on the old property too and are we still liable in any way for this? As we moved out voluntarily, I just stopped all payments without a second thought. I’ve read something about exemptions for repossessed properties.It would have been better to inform the council that you were moving out, because they can be a law unto themselves. You're not liable for any arrears at the date of the Bankruptcy Order, and if the property is empty you're not liable for council tax.
  

Phew! That’s all I think. Any advice would be much appreciated. Hopefully, this can be the process that finally lifts a big, big weight off of our shoulders so I want to make sure I get everything right.

Thanks in advance as always for any input.

Hi Rosey,

I think some of your questions have already been answered, so apologies for any repetition.

Regards

Richard

Richard_S

Hi Rosey,

If you're going the voluntary repossession route, one thing you must not under any circumstances do is sign a "Deed of Acknowledgement". This can leave you open to claims for any shortfall when the house is subsequently sold.

In fact, it's better not to sign anything from the lender; just let them do their own thing.

Richard

Rosey321

Thanks for the input.

Certainly, I have been extra careful not to sign anything relating to shortfalls or liabilities. As a result of my refusal to sign, this is why they didn't accept my offer of 'voluntary repossessions', instead insisting they would use their own litigation process which is what this has come to now.

Dodecanese & positivestep - If my experience is anything to go by, there is nothing to worry about with Firstplus.
They were a nuisance before going BR, sending two sets of debt collectors round and letters / threats galore. Since going BR though, I have not heard a peep out of them in 5 months and it appears that they have been thoroughly co-operative with the OR as well. Our main secured loan is with them (not sure if their stance is any different if you have a main mortgage with them).
All in all though, I was pleasantly surprised with them.

LilyBart

Hi Rosey,
Very interested to read all this. Please keep us posted. We're in a similar position, as you know. Court hearing November 12, and it's the secured loan people who are claiming possession, not the mortgage company. Funny to read Sandy's comments, as it was the I+E bit of the form that most raised my hackles too. We're also going to write a letter, pointing out that we're not contesting it, and I'm reluctantly resisting the impulse to include a long spiel on how menacing the behaviour of the secured loan co has been throughout this. Most amusing/enraging is the bit where they state we're still living at the property (they know perfectly well that we moved out in May) and that they have no knowledge of our financial circumstances (they know full well we are bankrupt). Must say, I'm surprised that this is the way it works. I would have thought the mortgage company would have nipped in first, but we haven't even been sent any liability forms to sign - don't worry, Richard, we won't sign them if they do arrive - so I suppose this is simply a series of hoops that everyone has to jump through. Won't it be a relief when it's done, though?
best
Lily

Rosey321

I couldn't resist a tiny dig in my letter along the lines of 'I am surprised to read that my current financial status is unknown as I have reported this to the claimant many times' and also 'I offered my house for repossession as soon as I was declared BR in order to avoid the arrears increasing'. I also stated that I was aware that the claimant's had been in contact with OR, have acknowledged they still have the keys and have been instructed to contact the OR with shortfall amounts after selling(for the avoidance of doubt).

Probably more than I needed to write, but just thought I'd cover all areas and subtly let off a bit of steam!!

My repo is with the main mortgage lender. They have been a right pain and have kicked their heels in all the way and have continually written. When I picked up my post a few days ago, it seems that more cards had been put through the door from agents who had been knocking at any empty building!
They have continually ignored my earlier letters telling them to deal with OR. After a while, I just stopped writing at all - ignoring was the best way. No wonder they went into the red themselves by using their budgets writing to /calling /sending people to an address which on file they must know is empty! Not sure if their departments speak to each other or they really are just following an internal litigation process. They probably have a check list that says ' called at home address, wrote to client etc' knowing full well that nothing will come of it. Maybe they need a record to show to the courts that they have tried to get in touch? Or maybe just an excuse to keep adding charges to the account for each letter/visit/phone call.....

On a seperate note, we have two further secure loan charges though who have been quiet at mice throughout the whole process and I think any dealings they have done have been through the OR (having said that, the OR hinted that she has lost patience with one of them, and she will add the figure onto the debt 'when they bother to get back in touch with her!')