Form 6.28 clarification required

TehRoflcopterz

Hello, first time poster here.

I'll try to keep it brief, as I appreciate there's hundreds of post to answer.

Having spoken to CCCS recently, they confirmed my fears that I need to petition for individual bankrupty.

I have completed the forms (mostly), but sections 7 (outgoings) and 8 (property) are causing me some headaches.

In a nutshell, I separated from my wife 2 years ago and moved in with another girl, who owns her own mortgaged property. I continue (to date) to give her a fixed amount each month as my contribution towards the household expenses (rather than labelling it as 'rent')

My divorce became complete beginning of Oct 08.

Now that I have to fill in 6.28, I'm unsure as to what to enter into the amount boxes.

Do I put in all of the bills in full, and list her income too... if so, do I list the full mortgage as an outgoing even though the mortgage is solely in her name?

And then section 8 ... the one that gives me the sweats!

8.1 Details of property you own... none?
8.2 Details of property you rent or lease... none? I don't technically pay rent as there's no official agreement?

I'm sure this isn't a unique arrangement in this day & age, but having spent a while searching through these forums before posting, I can't find the answers I need.

Any help most appreciated, thanks in advance.

Richard_S

Hi TehRoflcopterz,

Where did you come up with a name like that?:eek:

You need to be very careful here, because the last thing you want to do is involve your girlfriend in your bankruptcy. You don't have to be mentioned on the deeds or mortgage of a house to acquire a Beneficial Interest in the property. That means if you've lived together for two years and contributed to the household expenses and upkeep on a 50:50 basis, then 50% of any increase in the value of the property is your B.I and the O.R will look to realise it.

Fortunately, with house prices heading south, that is unlikely to be the case, but I wouldn't even take the chance.

If I was in your position I'd put down the amount you pay your G.F as being your living expenses, and then include any expenditure that is soley yours, i.e. travelling expenses, dry cleaning, health costs etc.

If you earn a decent salary it's going to leave you with a reasonable surplus that's likely to attract an IPA, but that's better than getting mired in a dispute over your GF's house.

If anything else occurs I'll post again, and I'm interested to see what the other guys and gals think.

Best regards

Richard

k2nga

Well i did mine as i was not married i never entered anything about my partner. You partners mortgage is not in you name so ignore it.

I would put your SOA on here if you need advice on that in case you are assessed for an IPA if working as many others can help make sure you have listed everything in your SOA but i would at least put something in for rent.

Im guessing if you dont have a rent agreement you dont have one but just explain this to the OR after your BR and it should not be a problem.

If im wrong on this i am sure someone else will know but nest of luck with the rest pf you petition.

TehRoflcopterz

Thanks for the quick reply.

I should really clarify, that the house we're in at the moment was purchased in November 2007, again solely in her name, so I would speculate that my interest in her property will be almost nothing, given the short amount of time of ownership, and with prices dropping there is a definate negative equity in the property... I hope I am correct is this assumption?

k2nga

i would say you were spot on myself.

TehRoflcopterz

Cheers K2NGA

I have done my SOA, here it is, and it genuinely worked out that way, I didn't cook the books... :rotfl:

Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet

Monthly Income Details
Monthly income after tax................ 1050
Partners monthly income after tax....... 0 (Not listed as not married... is this correct?)
Benefits................................ 0
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 1050

Monthly Expense Details - all 100% mine unless indicated
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured loan repayments................. 0
Rent.................................... 460 (50% of GF full mortgage)
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 70 (50%)
Electricity............................. 10 (50%)
Gas..................................... 10 (50%)
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates............................. 20 (50%)
Telephone (land line)................... 20 (50%)
Mobile phone............................ 5
TV Licence.............................. 6 (50%)
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 5 (50%)
Internet Services....................... 5 (50%)
Groceries etc. ......................... 140
Clothing................................ 20
Petrol/diesel........................... 110
Road tax................................ 22
Car Insurance........................... 63
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 20
Car parking............................. 0
Other travel............................ 0
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses............ 0
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 7
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 0
Buildings insurance..................... 10 (50%)
Contents insurance...................... 6 (50%)
Life assurance ......................... 0
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 0
Haircuts................................ 10
Entertainment........................... 20
Holiday................................. 0
Emergency fund.......................... 10
Total monthly expenses.................. 1049

Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 0
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 600
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 600

No Secured Debt

Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Overdraft......................1500......0.........?
Barclays CC....................4300......86........?
Personal Loan (Unsec)..........1100......32........?
Santander CC...................10200.....220.......25
Storecard......................300.......12........?
Egg LoanCard...................2800......60........?
Egg CC.........................2800......60........?
Total unsecured debts..........23000.....470.......-

Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 1,050
Expenses (including secured debts)....... 1,049
Available for debt repayments........... 1
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 470
Surplus(deficit if negative)............ -469

Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 600
Total Secured debt...................... -0
Total Unsecured debt.................... -23,000
Net Assets.............................. -22,400


Have I made an error anywhere... anything too much or too little?

All comments most welcome. :beer:

tigerfeet2006

Make sure you don't mention she is your GF, you're just renting a room. Though I am not sure if £460 is a lot of money for renting a room. Just check for the area average.

The only thing I would change is get rid of entertainment and put it in housekeeping.

Internet and satelite TV will have to come off. They are not an essential. It will have to come out of your surplus.

TehRoflcopterz

tigerfeet2006 wrote: »

Make sure you don't mention she is your GF, you're just renting a room. Though I am not sure if £460 is a lot of money for renting a room. Just check for the area average.

Cheers Tigerfeet

This is something I'm very concerned about, and it's what is causing me the headaches. I'd rather be 100% honest from the start and tell it how it is.

So should I put the full amounts for the household bills, and show her income as well? But then that would paint a false picture of the situation, because my debt is causing her to go into debt too... if I pay my debts (£470pcm) then I can't pay my "rent" ie- the 50% of the mortgage. I can't continue to pay my debts because to meet the full mortgage my GF is having to make up the deficit using her credit & overdraft so that I pay my debts...!

If I successfully get bankruptcy, we stand a reasonable chance of staying afloat and staying as a couple. I don't want to drag her down with me. It seems like my only other option is for me to move out and for her to take on a lodger?

All I want to do is just fill out the forms properly, but I just can't get my head around it all really.

TehRoflcopterz

I visited the local county court today and got the earliest date available, which is 9th December, so I need to get cracking now.


Any other suggestions, no matter how small, are very much appreciated folks.

Thanks again to all who've replied so far.

Rylynn

You know I have always found honesty to be the best policy, others may disagee, but you need to look at what you can say and what you cannot, if you lie you have to then remember what about, if you simply tell the truth any questions fired at you will not then phase you out.

You have stacks of time so do not panic is my advice, are you doing the forms online if so if you hit a spot which gives you hell please yell and pm me I did mine on line and was actually commended by the judge on being amongst the best forms he had seen in months, and boy I nearly hand wrote them, he would not have said the same I am sure had I. My hand writing was really lovely til this illness now it is naff to say the least.

Moving out, her taking a lodger it all seems a beach too far for me, why not sit and think carefully about things why can you not be HER lodger you pay her rent, you do not have to say what the relationship is I dont think.. mind you that is going away from being truthful, but it for me is just a small whitish lie.

RL

TehRoflcopterz

Thanks Rylynn, I (we) have considered declaring myself as a lodger, but we have no formal documentation to support this agreement? No rentbook or rent agreement, etc.

And also (as raised in TigerFeet's posting), perhaps the amount of £460pcm plus half of the utility bills might be deemed to be excessive for the Midlands area (non- city centre) for a "house-share" set-up?

Oh, and I'm not doing my forms online, I'm doing them the old-fashion way...!