Rent back deals 'need firm rules'

GDB2222

northeast1976 wrote: »

mmmm ok i will let you have that one as i didnt give you her D.O.B but you have to be 65 for S.H.I.P shes not

suspended sentence eeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrr no have you been to court recently a high percentage are repo judge hears same old story they are not daft either they know if they give them 4 weeks it wont sell at auction and even if it does yeah great she gets a little extra money but fails the criteria she doesnt want to move out she wants to stay near her family

other facts max a lender will lend on BTL is 75% ltv so RICS 80k , max borrowing @ 75% is 60 k , offer 42k after fees and costs would be left with 15k , agree?

im doing 20k of refurb to her property , i halved her out goings so she can live again, im keeping her near her family , we offer her the right to buy the property back at any time unlike SHIP, i stop the worry which is a big thing, i take away the slightest possibility she will get repoed and loose her house and forced in to a hostle, stop the shame and embarrassment in front of her friends and family the list goes on basicaly i tick all the boxes for her

Judges are not as trigger-happy as you would like to think. If the RICS is twice the loan, I really can't see a judge giving an outright possession order. I suppose it might depend how well advised this lady is.

From your earlier posts, you said this is all going to be self-financing for you - you said you were not putting anything in yourself. Now you are saying that you are putting in £5k. Does that come from MEWing based on the higher valuation once you've done the refurb?

Anyway, you're borrowing at least £60k, possibly £65k against the property. You say that this lady's rent will cover all your outgoings. You're also saying that her outgoings will be halved compared to her present position. So, somehow, your outgoings on a £60/65k mortgage are half what this lady is paying on a £40k mortgage. Clearly, she has some extraordinarily high interest rates in there somewhere. Based on what you have said, she is apparently paying over 20% interest rate on her mortgage.

With 50% LTV, if properly advised, she should be able to get better rate loans that she could easily afford. I am not even convinced that she needs to sell the property.

northeast1976

"With 50% LTV, if properly advised, she should be able to get better rate loans that she could easily afford. I am not even convinced that she needs to sell the property."..................................HOW?

she is in arrears NO i will say it again NO lender be it 1st charge or 2nd charge will lend a single penny to her............if you know how please tell me !!

as halving the payments pretty simple she is on a mortgage rate over 10% and 33% on a second charge both on repayment i will be on a rate a quater to half that on interest only

see you really dont have a clue how this allworks do you? its people such as your self and others who use similiar forums to this that give investors a bad name you have a little bit of information a bout little bits that you have heard or read somewhere but thats it
i would never cut some ones head open chop bits of brain out just because oh i know a bit ive watched a programme on it!!

how well qualified are you ? at all ?

have you ever done a SARB?

are you an investor?

do you advise on mortgages or give qualified financial advice?

do you own any type of BTL?

have you been to court recently witha repo client?

as i dont get any of your points really as non hold water you just seem to circling the wagons as for each and every question theres a more than valid answer
lets face it you dont really know what you are talking about its almost like you have googled this and copied most of your posts

so be honest have you ever done any of the above (questions) ? if not how on earth do you know anything about this situation? and how on earth can you comment on somthing you obviously know nothing about as i said i certainly wouldnt tell a brain surgeon how to do his job just cause i had watched ER!!!!!!!
from all the questions and answers you have given me , you remind me of an ex partner even when i am blatenly right im still wrong!!!!

i have told some good investors about this post they have been on and had a look (around 20 of them) after they finished laughing at you they where all saying the same thing why even bother posting somthing like this on a forum like this one they stated as its just full of left wing burn your bra fight for the people etc etc comments and such like , which i am begining to agree with but my answer was to show narrow minded know it alls that SARB in the right conditions is the right thing to do and there are some decent investors out there and to try and put the horror stories in to perspective ,and also prove there are thousands of happy sarb clients, but one thing i have learnt is that this forum is full of know it alls , jack of all trades master of none!!! i just wish people would advise / comment on somthing they actually know about rather than what they think they know!!!!!!!!(not just this post i have looked at loads of posts in different areas on the forum)
the only other reason i have kept this going is of the thanks that have been left after the posts so hopefully some people are learning somthing.

GDB2222

So, she needs to put her loans on interest only and get off a loan rate of 33%. And the only and best way to do this is to sell you her house for half price? No, I don't think so.

Like I said, she needs sensible advice. I am not a mortgage broker, so I can't advise her on how to straighten out her loans. If her credit history is that bad, it may not be possible, in which case she may have to sell the house.

You telling her that she is going to be immediately repo'd unless she takes your offer - well, that's just a wind-up so you can buy her property cheaply. I don't think it's nice to prey on the weakest most vulnerable people in society. If you can live with your conscience, so be it.

If properly represented, the court would be bound to provide her with a breathing space to sell her property at a reasonable price.

how well qualified are you ? at all ?

have you ever done a SARB?

are you an investor?

do you advise on mortgages or give qualified financial advice?

do you own any type of BTL?

have you been to court recently witha repo client?

Highly / no / yes / I did / yes / no, but I am aware of the law

BTW, in 2007 there were 5 times as many repo claims issued as there were repos. So, only about 20% of proceedings actually resulted in a repo.

but my answer was to show narrow minded know it alls that SARB in the right conditions is the right thing to do and there are some decent investors out there

Yes, you would think that

i have told some good investors about this post they have been on and had a look (around 20 of them)

You do rather lose credibility at these moments.

northeast1976

Highly / no / yes / I did / yes / no, but I am aware of the law

AAArrrh its making sense you own A btl so you think you know it all!!!!

I currently have 137 standard residential BTL'S, so what is it that you are so Highly qualified in give me the qualifications you have.

"i did" surley you will know all adverse lenders once in arrears they will not change to interest only!!

exactly 2007 its 2008 things have changed a lot most are being persued go to court you will see even with good representation they will not give long at all 6 weeks!! but as you have got to admit that not long and a lot of stock at auction is not selling again go to a local auction you will see

every thing i comment on ive done, you say you know the law well if thats the case you will know the law is quite fickel you can have two identical cases go through the same court with the same judge but have completly different out comes

you keep missing a very crucial point SHE DOES NOT WANT TO SELL HER PROPERTY AND MOVE AWAY she wants to stay in her own home 99% of all SARB's are the same THEY DO NOT WANT TO MOVE so you are not giving best advice you may be giving what you think is best advice for the money but its not best for the client arrrh thats why you dont do mortgages financial advise any more it was all about the product not the client its making a little sense now bet you where the sort to take a client off interest only and put them on repayment because you think thats best !.......... wrong in most cases, hence why you are no longer an adviser.

GDB2222

northeast1976 wrote: »

I currently have 137 standard residential BTL'S, so what is it that you are so Highly qualified in give me the qualifications you have.

"i did" surley you will know all adverse lenders once in arrears they will not change to interest only!!

exactly 2007 its 2008 things have changed a lot most are being persued go to court you will see even with good representation they will not give long at all 6 weeks!! but as you have got to admit that not long and a lot of stock at auction is not selling again go to a local auction you will see

every thing i comment on ive done, you say you know the law well if thats the case you will know the law is quite fickel you can have two identical cases go through the same court with the same judge but have completly different out comes

you keep missing a very crucial point SHE DOES NOT WANT TO SELL HER PROPERTY AND MOVE AWAY she wants to stay in her own home 99% of all SARB's are the same THEY DO NOT WANT TO MOVE so you are not giving best advice you may be giving what you think is best advice for the money but its not best for the client arrrh thats why you dont do mortgages financial advise any more it was all about the product not the client its making a little sense now bet you where the sort to take a client off interest only and put them on repayment because you think thats best !.......... wrong in most cases, hence why you are no longer an adviser.

Sorry, I won't give out any more personal details on the internet. I started in BTL in 1983, with 2 flats above my office. It's grown quite a bit since then, but I wouldn't want 137 properties. Apart from anything else, I don't want the admin and the gearing involved. Also, I wouldn't want to obtain even one property in the way that you appear to work.

I agree the law is fickle.

99% of all SARB's are the same THEY DO NOT WANT TO MOVE

Surely that must be 100%? That's the whole point of SARB.

You can dress it up as much as you like, but what this all comes down to is as follows:
a) There would be loads of investors interested in an outright sale at 25%-30% below RICS, so say £60k for this lady. She pays off all her debts and gets left with £20k. That would be on an "instant-sale" basis, ie at least as quickly as you could act. She can rent elsewhere in the locality, or it's even possible that the same house will come up on the rental market.
b) Given more time by the court, she could go to auction and probably achieve still more.
c) You have persuaded her to take £42k on the basis of a one-year AST at a slightly reduced rent.

northeast1976

GDB2222 wrote: »

Sorry, I won't give out any more personal details on the internet. I started in BTL in 1983, with 2 flats above my office. It's grown quite a bit since then, but I wouldn't want 137 properties. Apart from anything else, I don't want the admin and the gearing involved. Also, I wouldn't want to obtain even one property in the way that you appear to work.

I agree the law is fickle.

Surely that must be 100%? That's the whole point of SARB.

You can dress it up as much as you like, but what this all comes down to is as follows:
a) There would be loads of investors interested in an outright sale at 25%-30% below RICS, so say £60k for this lady. She pays off all her debts and gets left with £20k. That would be on an "instant-sale" basis, ie at least as quickly as you could act. She can rent elsewhere in the locality, or it's even possible that the same house will come up on the rental market.
b) Given more time by the court, she could go to auction and probably achieve still more.
c) You have persuaded her to take £42k on the basis of a one-year AST at a slightly reduced rent.

Gearing !! again i make my point YOU DONT KNOW ANY THING ABOUT INVESTING i have not built my portfolio around gearing only inexperienced investors gear up thats the sharks that are now failing in the current market

you have been investing since 1983 but yet you dont know that mortages go to svr mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
so basicaly you are a traditional investor that knows nothing really about investing or how it works

you dont want to give personal details ......... what a few letters after your name those details will be on your bussiness card any way so there public mmmmm me thinks your not even qualified or dont have any but as you have been shouting i am the big i am you cant back it up with your qualifications

As for 99% i meant by that that some only want to stay in the property 1 or 2 months and as they dont usally pay rent as we dont charge its not a TRUE SARB ie sale & RENT BACK as they are not paying rent

Any investor who is savey would not buy less than 35% IN THE CURRENT MARKET
i bet you that you save up 10%-25% deposit dont you??
i have never and will never put a single penny of my own money in to any property i buy

you dont want 137 properties that did make me laugh.................so at the minute i am semi retired (working through choice as i like to keep my finger on the pulse) and i will be fully retired in less than 3 years which will make me 35 i take just over £12,000 (thats profit not the actual rent ie rent 500 mortgage 450) a month in rent i pay an admin team of two 1200 each a month and have last time i checked 1.4m in my bank with around 4.7m in equity.................and you dont want 137 properties !!!!!!!!!

AGAIN YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT SHE DOES NOT WANT TO MOVE SARB! SARB! SARB! SARB! NOT SAMO (SELL AND MOVE OUT)

as for renting else where she would struggle she is a bad payer and would struggle with references as her credir is shot and any retal agent does a full credit score plus its a small world all DECENT investors know each other i network with over 400 other in vestors and personally know around 30 plus in my own area we all talk to each other and ask do you know such and such , yes i do shes a bad payer! ie a bad payer or some one with good references which one would you take? she may get a landlord like you that knows nothing and doesnt do any checks and then you wonder why you have bad tenants , do your self a favour join the NLA & RLA

also you say you are "highly qualified" you cant be very good at what you do! as for the last 2 days from 9am untill late you have been posting on here so you cant be very busy hence not very good your probably unemployed sat at home giving your 2penth

as for yesterday i went court with her we have 6 weeks and as i stated before she has a right at any time to cancel with us up to completion SHE DOES NOT WANT TO AUCTION THE HOUSE SHE WANTS TO LIVE THERE

see what i mean you just circle the wagons you ask or state the same question each and every time

plus as previously posted i have offered her the max of 42k because that is the most she wants is able to pay as we do a full face to face fact find and affordability to pay in rent if she could say pay 500 in rent i could offer her 60k it has to stack but if she does move out or we have to evict her the going rent is not 500 so iwould be left out of pocket as it just wouldnt rent it for that you have got to remember im not doing her a favour its business i have got to do whats right for my company as well as for her or i am not doing my other tenants any favours cause i would be out of pocket and to make it balance i would have to sell a property because i got stung by this one this is where in experienced investors come in and the sarb side has got a bad name for that reason they get in trouble and have to evict and sell a property to get them selves out of debt ironic really - i wont evict her unless she cant pay as all my bases are covered ie 48% bmv so even if properties still fall which they WILL as they are set to go further in 2009 i can still remortgage that property offer good rent instead of being stuck on svr unable to remortgage cause the property is in negitive equity and the rent would go up by say 100 a month hows that helping her its not
i am never going to get rid of her why would i if she pays the rent on time she can stay there 99years if she wants - what about selling i hear you say? i am never going to sell ever!! or i will hit capital gains so i will never sell i will pass them on as in heritance , so for now they are money cows go up in price release the equity but only up to 70% ltv

ok so i give her your advice she sells at auction if shes lucky for say 60K she is now homeless and gets put in a hostel and put on an emergency list oh no wait she doesnt get put on an emergency list as her son is older than 16 so shes stuck in the hostel the other side of town for say 12 months at least , but hang on she s got 15k left from the sale of her home (after fees and costs) she cant buy again her credit is shot she cant rent her credit is shot as any decent property landlord and letting agent will do a full credit score so she will have to go to a back alley landord and pay over the odds for a crappy little flat with no decent service her stuff is in storage costing 100 a month as it wont all fit in shes stressed, isolated as shes not near her family shes been embarrassed and shown up in front of family and friends she may loose her job through the stress and as its now on the other side of town she been torn away from all she knows for the last 22years
or sell it to another investor for 60k but shes out as she cant afford the rent as it would be un affordable for her and here we go again she gets put in a hostel the other side of town........................................................

or i could save her HOME halve her out goings make the rent affordable for her hence 42k not 60k give her 2k in her hand keep her in her home near her family put a new boiler in new carpets new kitchen new bathroom 24hrs service give the option to buy back once shes on her feet again at a discounted price

mmmmmmmm and you say we give bad advice , would you really do that???

GDB2222

You certainly have the gift of the gab. As to your loadsamoney response, I certainly hope you are loaded. You have essentially scared this woman into selling you her house at 50% of RICS, making you an immediate profit of £40k. You've done this under the pretence of helping her. If you've done that 137 times already, you really ought to be worth a load more than you are. All that scheming and exploitation for so little gain....

As you say, I've spent too much time on this thread. Bye.

northeast1976

GDB2222 wrote: »

You certainly have the gift of the gab. As to your loadsamoney response, I certainly hope you are loaded. You have essentially scared this woman into selling you her house at 50% of RICS, making you an immediate profit of £40k. You've done this under the pretence of helping her. If you've done that 137 times already, you really ought to be worth a load more than you are. All that scheming and exploitation for so little gain....

As you say, I've spent too much time on this thread. Bye.

mmmmmmmmmmm what i thought you know nothing as you cant answer any of the above - you are sad

i just hope no one ever takes advice from you EVER !!

oh and as for my worth key word is what i have in equity not what im actually worth read it properly - spud!

northeast1976

As you go on just check this out enter BMV LEADS in to google or below market value leads see if you help all them!!

Almighty_Dollar

Hi guys,

just wanted to say thanks for the entertainment, i had a good laugh reading your thread, hell...i even thought it was worth registering to say that!

northeast1976....you have the patience of a saint, i would not have bothered to type so much for someone who does not seem to be able to deal with the real world, or even basic facts like "the lady does NOT want to move."

The classic one for me....

GDB2222 "she could sell for £60,000"

northeast1976 "she does NOT want to leave her home." X 200 times lol!!

Some people might have the best intentions, but are unfortunately complete, uninformed, morons. I would never call anyone that of course....but only out of politeness.

Once again, thanks for the entertainment.