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Liability order and a bailiff

I had a bailiff at the door today for outstanding council tax and business rates. They have gained a liability order on me before my bankruptcy so the debts stands. I spoke to the OR who confirmed this. I did not even know about the court appearance as the council sent all details to my business since I left it and today was the first I knew about it

I have not got a clue what I can do as I have no money to pay this debt, I did have to laugh when he asked can I borrow the money, I did explain this is against the law for me to do.

I have no personal assets which he did not belief I have no income and what I do have in my house is now my wives which I can not prove. I do not want to put my family under any more stress but I do not know what to do.

I spoke to CCCS and community legal advice but I am waiting for a callback.

Has anyone had experience with this in the past.

I have not let them in my house and all doors and windows are locked for the future.
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Comments

  • Rylynn
    Rylynn Posts: 1,387 Forumite
    Keep them locked Steve. Sorry to hear you are going thru the mill yet again, hope the CCCS can give you advice, did not realise it was business rates as well thought it was only council tax, and I have no idea on either, having read here think some councils enforce and others do not. No help to anyone that type of thing as no clear indicator.

    Take care.

    RL
    Some Days are Diamonds Some Days are Stones,
    Sometimes the hard times won't leave me
    BSC 162:beer:
    Banktupt 22 Oct 2008 at 10am!
  • fatou256
    fatou256 Posts: 1,289 Forumite
    sworry steve to hear that ! i had concil tax arrear, a liability order and my file went to a bailif a week before my BR order.

    My or told me that it is included into my BR and i should not worry about it since then i haven't a heard a peep about them !
    BSC number 183
  • jude47
    jude47 Posts: 99 Forumite
    Hi Steve

    Grrr, it really pees me off when OR's don't know what they are doing . CTax and Business Rates are definitely both included in your BR. There are no circumstances where they are not, no matter what these idiots insist on telling you. I was a CTax/Bus Rates Recovery Officer for over a decade and I know whereof I speak. I used to hate BR's as I had to write their debts off the day we got notification from the OR!!

    The person you spoke to at the OR's office was almost certainly an assistant as hardly anyone ever gets to speak to the actual OR and clearly they haven't a clue. Complain in writing to the local authority and ask them to provide details of the legislation under which they are claiming preferential status post-BR. Also, complain, complain and complain again to your local Councillor and get them on the case - it's what they are elected for. Again, I used to hate Councillor interference as it was a pain, but boy, did it work!

    Let us know how you get on and PM me if you want anymore ammo!

    Jude x
  • peachyprice
    peachyprice Posts: 22,346 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I'm not so sure that's right Jude, fermi found this earlier in the year for a member.

    Quote:
    9.11 Local Authorities (amended May 2006)

    Local authorities are able to distrain for unpaid council taxes and non-domestic (i.e. business) rates. Their right to distrain is contained in the Local Government Finance Acts 1988 and 1992, the Non-Domestic Rating (Local Lists) (Collection and Enforcement) Regulations 1989 and the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992. Distress may only be levied once a liability order has been made by the magistrates’ court.

    The right of Local Authorities to distrain for pre and post insolvency order unpaid council tax and non domestic rates is exercisable at any time, including after the bankruptcy order and even against property comprised in the bankrupt's estate. The only exceptions are where an application under section 253 for an interim order is pending whereby under section 254(1)(b) the court may forbid the levying of distress, or where an interim order has been made under section 252, in which case leave of court must be obtained before distress is levied.

    Where the official receiver is aware that there is a creditor who may seek to levy distress against property that is comprised in the bankruptcy estate he/she should take all necessary steps to protect and preserve the property in question.

    Only the goods of the person assessed to pay rates can be distrained upon. Goods which are situated in a dwelling house and are reasonably required for the domestic needs of the debtor and his family cannot be seized when distraining for unpaid council tax. Rented or hired goods and utility fittings are also exempt from distraint for unpaid council tax. Where goods are seized they are generally not put up for sale for 5 days in order to allow time to pay the outstanding amount plus the costs of distraint.

    Where steps have already been taken by the local authority to recover a debt by insolvency proceedings or another method open to them (e.g. by attachment of earnings (see paragraph 9.125) or a charging order (see Part 4)), distress may not be levied. Where a local authority obtains a committal warrant against an individual who subsequently becomes bankrupt, the bankruptcy court has jurisdiction to stay the committal proceedings (which are punitive) (Re Smith (A Bankrupt) [1989] 3 All ER 897).

    Notes: [Local Government Finance Act 1988 ch 41 sch 4(II) para 7 and Local Government Finance Act 1992 ch 14 sch 4 para 7, Non-Domestic Rating (Local Lists) (Collection and Enforcement) Regulations 1989 part III reg 14 and Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 reg 45] [s347(8) and (9)]


    (Hope you don't mind me copying it here fermi)
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
  • debt_doctor
    debt_doctor Posts: 4,595 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Hi,

    Council tax and business rates are provable debts in BR. The common law right stated above is very rarely used, and the two paragraphs in blue effectively cancel each other out. There are many of these unknown and unused laws.Tax credit overpayments can be recovered from your tax code but they never are.

    I would take the advice of jude47.

    DD
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
  • fermi
    fermi Posts: 40,544 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker Rampant Recycler
    the two paragraphs in blue effectively cancel each other out.

    That was why I highlighted them in the original thread/post. Property exempted from forming part of your bankruptcy estate will nearly always be exempt from distraint as well.
    Free/impartial debt advice: National Debtline | StepChange Debt Charity | Find your local CAB

    IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed
  • peachyprice
    peachyprice Posts: 22,346 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Does that mean then that the bailiffs come, they're not allowed to take anything, so they pass the debt back to the council, and then if BR is their policy they would normally do that, but if your're already BR there's nothing they can do?
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
  • stevelinz
    stevelinz Posts: 180 Forumite
    Cheers Guys,

    I have taken legal advice and spoke to the council concerned, Both have said don't let them in which I never would.

    I have been advised that the bailiffs are only allowed to attend twice and then it gets sent back to the council. Hopefully from then it may be a bit easier

    Who said once you were BR the problems stop!!!
  • Hi

    I had a liabilty order granted for council tax debt just before I went BR on 21/8/08.

    I put the C Tax debt on my BR petition and it went through ok...the council have since called said bailiff off ( shame cause he was a handsome devil:D :D ) and have been okayish with me, and have issued me with a new CTax bill from September 08..Im having bother with there housing dept at the moment but the CTax dept have been decent since BR date before they were a right pain in the butt.

    Best wishes A
    BSC no 192
    I know sometimes you feel so helpless/you cant go on/so isolated, well you need never feel that way again as a simple Can you help me please? on here is your first step to that journey of fresh starts, so hello Im Anne, your ? YOU ARE NOT ALONE in all of this, we have all been there, so come join us.
  • stevelinz
    stevelinz Posts: 180 Forumite
    I have managed to argue my bill as the business was closed and I have had the bill dropped by nearly £800.

    Does anyone know, are the orders still void as the original amounts were incorrect or are they valid I had not paid them?
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