Help please with OH job - they're trying to take money off him!

ClaireLR

Any advice on the following situation would be really appreciated.

My OH works as a window fitter, and is employed rather than self-employed. The company he works for mainly carries out work for insurance companies.

So yesterday he went to this house where a window had been smashed in the front door. His job at that time would be to make the property secure while the glass was cut, so he boarded the door up. The door is made of timber and he and another person (this person is more junior than OH) screwed holes into the timber door and attached the board. The customers at that time did not express any concern about this and OH told them that the door could be filled and glossed over once the glass was fitted so there would be no holes left in the door.

Today he has gone into work to find that the surveyor has been back out to said customers where they have apparently said that the door is ruined and they want a new one!! OH's work have told him to expect a disciplinary and to have to pay for the new door at a cost of £100 a month (the door is expected to cost in the region of £300-400). Apprently the company he works for won't pay for it and neither will the insurance company.

Does this seem right? If they are right then it's only fair that he should pay it but as the customer didn't say at the time that they didn't want holes drillingI think this is unfair.

OH has had a lot of trouble with this company before - he had a minor smash in the company's van and they then made him pay £500 to cover the cost - surely they should be insured for this sort of thing???

Sorry if I'm ranting a bit it's just that they make me so mad!!

Can anyone offer any advice please as I do not think it's fair for us to lose £300 or £400 when the customer agreed to this in the first place!!

whitewing

Speak to ACAS on 08457474747. They will tell him whether it's likely to be fair and what to do about it otherwise.

ClaireLR

I've rung ACAS and they said if he has signed something then he will be liable, I have checked with him and he has no contract of employment BUT they did make him sign something when he started to say that if he damaged someones property through negligence then he would have to pay.

However, he doesn't feel that this is through negligence as the customer said it was ok!

OH is now worried that if he kicks up a fuss about this that they will find some way of getting rid of him, does anyone have any ideas of how to deal with this amicably please??

cazziebo

did the customer expressly say it was okay? Or did they just not say it wasn't okay? (Sorry about the double negative)

Your post suggests the customer didn't complain, which is different from giving permission.

don't want to add to bad news but most companies will ask employees to pay the insurance excess for any damage to company vehicles.

londondulwich

I would get the surveyor's report of the damage and compare it with your partner's recollection of what happened.

If the reported damage is four drill holes, the next step is to get confirmation in writing from the unhappy customer, of the damage he is claiming for.

If he confirms that it is the four drill holes as well then the next step is to get an independant surveyor's assessment of what steps should have been taken in carrying out the repair. The surveyor has to be told that his opinion may be used in a court and he may be called as a witness.

This is usually £250 upwards.

If your partner is the party being claimed against, and not the company, then the unhappy customer needs to be informed that the company have no liability and the customer needs to file his claim for a new door (and presumably having it hung) against your partner.

The customer may have agreed to the work, but this will not defeat a claim of negligence. Your partner held himself out as an expert and the work was supervised by him.

pinkshoes

If you have a wooden door with glass panels, and a panel is smashed, then how else would you make it secure other than drilling some holes to put a board across?

I'm sure the customer would have been fuming had they come over and selotaped a plastic bin liner over the hole!

lynzpower

Pink shoes I totally agree.

I work for a security company and we use boarding teams quite a lot for smashed windows etc. I totally fail to see how a window or door can be boarded without drilling- unless using glue? Cant see that causing less "damage".

The important issue I think is who ordered this work to be done? If the insurance co had asked for the work to be done, then Im fairly sure that the alternative of not boarding would be an option ( IYSWIM)

This just seems to me like the customer wants a new door, and will go anyway they can to find someone willing to do it.

As your OHs management gave him the joib to do ( ie boarding the door) did they give any specific advice ( ie what size screws/ what it should look like) ( i know boarding is boarding but still) . If they have not given this then I would suggest that this is unenforceable, as negligence. How can anyone be negligent of an issue when they were not informed of the issue IYSWIM.

What did acas say it seems very unfair to me.

ClaireLR

Sorry for the late replies, myself and OH have been talking about this tonight.

did the customer expressly say it was okay? Or did they just not say it wasn't okay? (Sorry about the double negative)

Your post suggests the customer didn't complain, which is different from giving permission.

don't want to add to bad news but most companies will ask employees to pay the insurance excess for any damage to company vehicles.

Yes, OH says that he told the customer what this entailed and the customer was fine about this.

I would get the surveyor's report of the damage and compare it with your partner's recollection of what happened.

If the reported damage is four drill holes, the next step is to get confirmation in writing from the unhappy customer, of the damage he is claiming for.

If he confirms that it is the four drill holes as well then the next step is to get an independant surveyor's assessment of what steps should have been taken in carrying out the repair. The surveyor has to be told that his opinion may be used in a court and he may be called as a witness.

This is usually £250 upwards.

If your partner is the party being claimed against, and not the company, then the unhappy customer needs to be informed that the company have no liability and the customer needs to file his claim for a new door (and presumably having it hung) against your partner.

The customer may have agreed to the work, but this will not defeat a claim of negligence. Your partner held himself out as an expert and the work was supervised by him.

I have this evening seen the companys surveyors report. It states that the customer is unhappy due to the holes causing splintering of the wood

If you have a wooden door with glass panels, and a panel is smashed, then how else would you make it secure other than drilling some holes to put a board across?

I'm sure the customer would have been fuming had they come over and selotaped a plastic bin liner over the hole!

This just seems to me like the customer wants a new door, and will go anyway they can to find someone willing to do it.

My thoughts exactly!! :mad:

Apparently OH's head office have contacted him today to say they want to do the disciplinary over the phone! I told him no way, the least they can do is come and see him face to face and explain why they think it is necessary.

We were thinking about going to see a solicitor about this, but we don't want to be left with a huge legal bill. Acas have already told us that as he signed the aforementioned form that this will go against him.

Can they take money from his salary if he writes a letter saying that he does not authorise this? I'm trying to get round this without legal help as I said because of the huge bill we could be left with but I don't see how we are going to do this.

Any more advice would be really appreciated.

Oh the other thing is that apparently the customer has said that as she is not happy with OH's work and the company she has asked her insurer to get another company to fit the door which is what OH has to pay for - a total we've been told today of £950.00 :eek:

I hope that woman is really pleased with herself and I hope her new door falls off and hits her on the head really really soon.

lynzpower

Apparently OH's head office have contacted him today to say they want to do the disciplinary over the phone! I told him no way, the least they can do is come and see him face to face and explain why they think it is necessary.

We were thinking about going to see a solicitor about this, but we don't want to be left with a huge legal bill. Acas have already told us that as he signed the aforementioned form that this will go against him.

Can they take money from his salary if he writes a letter saying that he does not authorise this? I'm trying to get round this without legal help as I said because of the huge bill we could be left with but I don't see how we are going to do this.




Any more advice would be really appreciated.

good god, I cant believe your update

1) check whether you have legal cover on your mortgage/ or insurances.

2) surely this stupid woman needs to have a reality check. I go to B&Q pretty much daily and exterior doors are around the 200 quid mark. We had a door hung by a joiner and it was 100+ vat for an hours work AND he drilled in a dog door for us.


This quote takes the pi$$

What I cant believe is that your hubbys company who is contracted BY THE INSURER is not being believed in all this. Whats the insurers take on it. If I were the insurer, ( my uncle is a loss adjuster have had good chats about this sort of thing)
this would be ringing massive alarm bells for me. What is there to say this woman didnt put her own damn window through so she could get a new door?!

Seems very odd to me, and I hope you can get this sorted, BOL to you both

maninthestreet

The customer agreed at the time that they had no objection to the door being drilled and screwed.

londondulwich

The splintering complained of should be visually recorded. As the customer is planning to engage a new company, this should be done as soon as possible.

You need the customer's permission to take photos. If she refuses, good because the court can draw negative inferences, if she agrees, good as it will assist an independant surveyor.

The work your husband is accused of carrying out negligently needs to be independently assessed if you wish to contest the accusation.

You need to have each step of the procedure assessed.

Does the present company's surveyor agree that the boarding up was necessary?

If so, how should the boarding have been done?

If drilling was the best method, how should this have been done?

Were the holes too deep, too many, too wide?

If the holes were appropriate, was the splintering caused because the screws were introduced without predrilling and split the grain of the door?