Council tax debt - please can someone advise me.

saffronflowers

I would write to the head of Revenue and cc B&S , request taht all action be put on hold because of the info that Herbie and I have given you and send both special delivery (if you can afford it) and if anyone comes to the door state that it is in dispute etc.

MM - the reason that I am pretty sure that there was little or no discussion is that bailiff's do not need to speak to the council to agree a repayment plan, it is entirely up to them and also it is a very low amount which seems to me and my large amount of knowledge of the workings of bailiffs that they realise that they are infact treading a fine line as to wheather they can enforce this debt. I could of course be wrong but I am basing it on experiance.

SFx

moneymare

LisaB1970 wrote: »

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In the meantime - do i pay the bailiff or do i write to them and tell them whats going on and request that action be put on hold until its sorted?

The bailiffs are unlikely to take your word for it that the account is being queried and it should go on hold - I would ask to speak to the person (manager) who's name you have been given and ask them to contact the bailiffs to hold action whilst your complaint is resolved.

I work in a Council Tax department and there is no way an account should have been passed to the Bailiffs after such a length of time without prior documentation going out to you advising of the outstanding sum - v.poor.

In meantime, make payments direct to the Council.

LisaB1970

Thanks folks. Ill do what you suggested and keep you informed of what happens.

LisaB1970

Herbie21 wrote: »

As I have said hundres of times before......ALWAYS PUT YOUR COMPLAINT IN WRITING.

This case is most certainly one where you should mention that you will be resorting to a complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman unless this is resolved.

www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk

Im writing a letter at the moment. Thanks Herbie

LisaB1970

Heres an update:

Last week i received 2 bills from the council - despite them telling me it was only 1! One is from 2001-2002 and the otehr 2002-2003 - and they total the amount that i apparently owe.
I asked for copies of the original bills, an explanation as to why it had taken them so long to pursue this, confirmation of the date of the liability order and that the debt be taken back from the bailiff until the matter was resloved - none of which they have done.
They have changed my name on the bills - something i did not ask them to do - i asked for copies of the originals and only asked them to note my change of surname.
On Monday this week i had a call from a bailiff who said he was sat outside my house! I was absolutely furious so i called the council. The person ont he end of the phone insisted i needed to deal with the bailiffs and i refused and insisted he get a manager to call me back! Which they did. They have now put the debt on hold until they give me the info i originally asked for, but he did say they could not send me any copies of original documents as they had had a new system put in and anything over 5 years old has been lost! They could only send me a letter that they send out now!
So basically, from what he was saying, they have no records of any correspondence they may have sent me.
To top it all - when i got home Bristow & Sutor had posted me a note through the door with anotehr £100 added onto it! The first bill was for £619 including their costs of £24.50 yet this one now says i owe £719 including his costs for his visit which is £100!
I am fuming.

I am wondering now whether to go get some legal advice from a solicitor - i tried the CAB but they have no appointments till 18th November and they can only see 5 people on a wednesday at their drop in centre on a first come first served basis.
Any advice on how to pursue this would be great.
I have written to the chief exec of the council on the 19th September and had no response, but i dont want to leave this now.

Thanks!

saffronflowers

OK - the one from 2001-2002 should come under the statute barr ruling - will go and check the facts for you on that. As far as the second visit he sould only charge £18.00 unless he has done a levy which I am assuming he has not.

Sadly a solicitor will not really help you as such and will be expensive. Let me have a look through my files and see if I can find anything that is pertinant, because I am thinking if they have not got the original paperwork then how can they enforce an unprovable debt IYSWIM

SFx

LisaB1970

Thanks SF. As its council tax it doesnt come under the 6 year rule as far as i know

Aparently a liability order was obtained in April 2002 but i am still waiting confirmation of that. I am annoyed that its taken them so flamin long to contact me about this, send in the bailiffs with no warning (although he council bloke said i would have had a letter in 2002 warning me!), then not even bother to address my queries correctly!

If the bailiff had done a levy would he have said so on his letter?

saffronflowers

Lisa - it does in a way it has been stated though it is not statute barred councils should not persue a debt that is over six years - I am trying to find the exact wording - maybe a while!!

He should do - write down what he has levied, the exact details not just TV, Microwave etc. He may well have levied on a car that he suspects is yours and if this the case he does not have to get a signature that it is your car. But the levy would be invalid if it is not your car.

SFx

saffronflowers

OK - I am remembering a bit more about this - if they do not have the paperwork from 5 years ago how can they prove that the liability order was obtained within the the time frame stated

Regulation 34(3) of the Council Tax (Administation and Enforcment) Regulations 1992 states the following:

"The council should not go to the magistrate’s court and ask for a liability order for council tax if the application is made more than six years after the council tax became due.

So it is very important they can get the paperwork to prove that you are "liable" to this.

SFx

LisaB1970

Thanks SF - ill hang fire now see what hey come back with. If it isnt a copy of the original - which i suspect it wont be then i will raise even more questions.
I did quote this to them in my last letter (thanks to Herbie!):


Liability Orders and the 6 year rule.

The Limitations Act 1980 imposes various time limits on different classes of
proceedings these are:

• six years for sums due under contract,
• six years for tortious claims,
• three years for personal injury cases
• twelve years for recovery of land.

Whilst the six year rule applies to the right of a billing authority to obtain a liability order under reg.34(6) Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 SI 613, there is no express time limit for the collection and enforcement of local taxes once a liability order has been obtained.

Nevertheless, some justices (guided by their clerk to the court) considered the overriding duty is to exercise discretion reasonably.

Some are concerned that with debts going back more than 6 years (even if the billing authority can demonstrate recovery throughout) could be considered an abuse of legal process. Three years is the maximum period over which a committal postponement should run R. v. Newcastle Upon Tyne Justices ex parte Devine (QBD) (1998). Orders requiring more than three years to pay become irrecoverable.

When i mentioned this to council bloke, he just said "ah"......i did ask if he was aware of this and he said yes, but i dont think he thought i was!