Ask a DCA Worker

coolcait

rog2 wrote: »

Hi Peekay

quote]


Hiya

I have to admit that I'm having a lot of difficulty with your post, rog2. I don't think anyone in the DCA industry could answer your list of questions - even a senior member of a 'DCA union' if there were such a thing. The questions are just too general. The person being questioned would have to guess which DCAs you are referring to, make assumptions about the kind of practices you're talking about, and speculate about the reasons why the (guessed at) DCAs are carrying out the (assumed) practices. So, I personally see those questions as unfair (not to mention the fact that they are framed to be 'leading' questions).

I know that many people on this forum have reason to complain about the practices of DCAs. I know also that the forum has had DCA posters in the past who have been deemed to be 'trolls'. I must say that I haven't always agreed with that view in the few cases I have personally seen. In addition, disagreeing with advice which has been given by others is not necessarily an attempt to 'discredit' it - much less 'trolling'. Sometimes people simply don't agree with all of the advice being given. Readers will make up their own minds about which advice to follow.

I am sure it was not your intention to pre-judge the OP. And it was good of you to reassure him/her that your 'implied criticism' and 'disgust' of his profession should not be seen as a personal attack. Equally, I am sure that your general musings on the nature of the debt collecting industry, and the 'opportunists' who are attracted to it, also fall under your reassurance that it is not a personal attack on the OP.

Nevertheless, if you are part of a group which is being treated with 'cynicism', 'disgust', and 'criticism', it can be hard to believe that you are truly being treated as an individual, and have not already been tarred with the same brush. One of the reasons, I suppose, why the MSE forums are rightly very strongly against making judgements and generalisations about those who are in debt.

I can certainly understand why the OP might not return to the forum (I hope he/she does, because any society needs different viewpoints, IMO). And I can understand why previous DCA posters might have chosen not to return if they received similar messages.

I have seen it said many times that this forum doesn't judge. Yet, in the case of the OP, that doesn't appear to hold true. And the judgements which have been made are not based on anything which he/she has said to date - they are based on the OP's employment, and on perceptions of the way previous DCA posters have behaved.

It may be that the OP - however genuine the intention is limited in the extent to which he/she can help. I've certainly found that, by dint of only knowing about the Scottish system, and only knowing a bit about that! But I'm all for giving him/her the chance in their own right - free of any thoughts about DCAs in general, or any views on previous posters.

Peekay32

rog2 wrote: »

Hi Peekay

First of all, and taking your post at face value, I accept that you may well be a 'nice guy' so I will refrain from any abuse, although the 'profession' that you represent, albeit at a very junior level' has never shown the same consideration towards me, or, it would seem, towards the majority of posters on this forum.

I do have a couple of genuine questions which are aimed at 'Debt Collection' as a whole, so any implied criticism, or even disgust, at the tactics used by many in your 'profession' is not meant as a personal 'attack', so please do not take it as such:

1. Please could you tell me why so many of your 'profession' seem to carry out their trade in a manner that completely goes against the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines to which they should adhere, in order to maintain their licences? http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/oft664.pdf
2. Please could you tell me why so many DCAs try to collect on 'alleged debts' which are out of statute, even after the 'alleged debtor' has informed them that he/she will not be making any payments towards the 'alleged debt' as it is 'statute barred'? http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=25_liability_for_debts_and_the_limitation_act
3. Please could you tell me why it is that so many DCAs attempt to 'pursue' debts without having ensured that they have the correct paperwork, including, where applicable, true copies of any executed consumer credit agreement and deeds of assignment? http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=getting_a_copy_of_your_credit_agreement_and_account_details
4. Please could you tell me why so many DCAs ignore, or appear to ignore, requests from 'aleged debtors' to accept payments at a rate that the 'debtor' can afford?
5. Please could you tell me why some DCAs will suggest that the 'debtor' takes out a loan - often with a company that is reccomended by that DCA, in order to 'pay off' the 'debt' that they are pursuing?
6. Please could you tell me why it is that very few, if any, DCAs will advise any 'alleged debtor' to seek advice, from any of the debt counselling charities, either regarding the 'debt' that they are pursuing, or about the debtor's overall financial situation?
7. Please could you tell me why so many DCAs will imply that they have powers that they do not have - such as sending in bailiffs, siezing property or petitioning for bankruptcy on 'debts' of less than £750.00?
8. Please could you tell me why it is that many DCAs, operating on behalf of the original creditor, will automatically assume that the original creditor is 'in the right' regarding a 'debt' which may well be in dispute?

As you say that you are 'one of the nice guys' and do not work for one of the 'big players' I have, deliberately, left out any question relating to 'attitude', 'threats' or even 'physical behaviour' of some members of your 'profession' that is often reported on these boards.

I fully accept that not all Debt Collectors are either nasty or evil, but, as you will, no doubt, appreciate it is an 'industry' that will only survive out of misfortune, and, in the current economic circumstances, is one of the few 'industries' where growth is virtually guaranteed.
I also accept that there is, and always will be, a need for a 'Debt Collection Service' and that not all 'debtors' are in debt unintentionally, but, as it stands, it is a very poorly regulated 'Industry' and will, inevitably, attract an element of 'opportunists' who can see an 'easy buck' to be made out of other people's misery.

That said, you have my, albeit guarded, welcome to DFW. As this is a forum primarily for 'debtors' who are attempting to 'deal with their debts' helpful and informative input, in line with the forums code of 'etiquette' http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/announcement.html?f=76 are always welcome.

I would ask you to accept, even tolerate, any cynicism that you may find in my reply, albeit unintended on my part, as there have been several members of your 'profession' who have posted here, in the past, initially 'offering help' yet have gone on to 'Troll' this forum and to try to discredit any advice given to those who are unfortunate enough to have to deal with DCAs.

The only reasons I can give to your questions are:

a) They're scum
b) They want money

The place I work for tries hard to adhere to the OFT guidelines, but by the posts I see, many don't. I can only assume that these "techniques" have shown better "results" (bleurgh) than those allowed within the guidelines. All I can say is that the MSE community needs to ensure that no case of breaking the guidelines goes unreported.

The general desensitisation of people within an industry can be seen at all levels - from soldiers at war to clothes shops knowingly importing goods made in sweatshops.

In terms of disputed accounts being ignored, it will generally be either:-

a) Too high a workload meaning catering to individual cases is difficult
b) Lazy workers thinking "f**k it, I'll just send out a court warning letter anyway"

In terms of pursuing statute barred debts and those without backup, it's purely for the sake of the pursuit of money.

I'm pretty sure that a vast majority of DCAs have automated systems. This means only a few alleged debtors need to pay in order to turn a profit on an entire batch. Again, kicking up a fuss about illegal practices can help tip the equation.

rayday2

I find myself in a unique position here, I am on a self managed DMP and to be honest I find DCA a lot easier to deal with than collection departments of credit companies.

I firmly believe that DCA should exist as there people who do avoid paying debt obligations and they should not be allowed to get away with it otherwise it bumps the cost up for responsible credit users.

My experience of dealing with DCA is to avoid any phone contact in fact don't credit them with your telephone number. I do write to them and show them I know my stuff and find responses once you show what you know usually go your way, ie, arranging payment plans and refunding any unfair costs.

Deep_In_Debt

Peekay32 wrote: »

The only reasons I can give to your questions are:

a) They're scum
b) They want money

The place I work for tries hard to adhere to the OFT guidelines, but by the posts I see, many don't. I can only assume that these "techniques" have shown better "results" (bleurgh) than those allowed within the guidelines. All I can say is that the MSE community needs to ensure that no case of breaking the guidelines goes unreported.

The general desensitisation of people within an industry can be seen at all levels - from soldiers at war to clothes shops knowingly importing goods made in sweatshops.

In terms of disputed accounts being ignored, it will generally be either:-

a) Too high a workload meaning catering to individual cases is difficult
b) Lazy workers thinking "f**k it, I'll just send out a court warning letter anyway"

In terms of pursuing statute barred debts and those without backup, it's purely for the sake of the pursuit of money.

I'm pretty sure that a vast majority of DCAs have automated systems. This means only a few alleged debtors need to pay in order to turn a profit on an entire batch. Again, kicking up a fuss about illegal practices can help tip the equation.

I have dealt with a few DCA's in my time. Only one of them was reasonably pleasant, who actually managed to get something out of me because he was not a bully boy and actually found the time to treat me like a person and speak to me in an adult fashion. Unfortunately, the bully boys just get told to bog off - so maybe DCA's should think about being a bit more pleasant in future and they may get more out of people.

I've spouted loads of legal stuff at them and all the rules they are breaking - unfortunately, they just got nastier. Probably because they realised I refused to be bullied won't succumb to their tactics.

Peekay32

Lodge wrote: »

Hi Peekay32.

I've got three of my debts in the hands of a DCA - each one is around 5K.

I've come to payment arrangements with each of the DCA's but the amounts I am paying seem very high compared to some people on here.

Each DCA said these are the minimum amounts they would accept (around £75 to each debt per month) so I agreed to pay them in fear of being taken to Court if I tried to negotiate lower payments.

Could you answer me two questions please?

1. Could I have negotiated lower monthly payments?
2. How often do DCA's take people to Court? By this I mean How often do they persue a debt through the Courts rather than come to a payment arrangement?

Thanks in advance.

D.

As far as I'm aware, judges will grant you a fair enough instalment plan if judgment is given against you. I think it's possible that you could've negotiated something lower, possibly by filling out an income and expenditure form, but I can't blame you for trying to avoid harrassment.

The DCA I work for has a decent size litigation department dedicated to taking people to court - Apparently filling out an N1 form is p*ss easy! We ask for assistance from external civil lawyers when dealing with complex cases. We try to use court as a last resort though, as the court process costs time & money, and there's often problems down the line with judgment debtors eluding, fooling and avoiding bailiffs (nicely done!).

Lodge

Peekay32 wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, judges will grant you a fair enough instalment plan if judgment is given against you. I think it's possible that you could've negotiated something lower, possibly by filling out an income and expenditure form, but I can't blame you for trying to avoid harrassment.

The DCA I work for has a decent size litigation department dedicated to taking people to court - Apparently filling out an N1 form is p*ss easy! We ask for assistance from external civil lawyers when dealing with complex cases. We try to use court as a last resort though, as the court process costs time & money, and there's often problems down the line with judgment debtors eluding, fooling and avoiding bailiffs (nicely done!).

Thanks for your reply.

Just as a rough estimate what size debt is considered "worthwhile" pursuing through the Courts? For example if I could not afford the 75 quid I've agreed to would you accept a lower amount or push this through the Courts? I know every case is different but just a general answer would be appreciated.

Thanks.
D.

Lodge

Lodge wrote: »

Thanks for your reply.

Just as a rough estimate what size debt is considered "worthwhile" pursuing through the Courts? For example if I could not afford the 75 quid I've agreed to would you accept a lower amount or push this through the Courts? I know every case is different but just a general answer would be appreciated.

Thanks.
D.

BUMP TO THE TOP IN CASE YOU MISSED MY POST!!

Thanks!

Peekay32

Lodge wrote: »

Thanks for your reply.

Just as a rough estimate what size debt is considered "worthwhile" pursuing through the Courts? For example if I could not afford the 75 quid I've agreed to would you accept a lower amount or push this through the Courts? I know every case is different but just a general answer would be appreciated.

Thanks.
D.

I can't see any reason for them to take you to court, but don't even note this post's content if they're threatening court action! It will cost them money to take you to court. I'd check with more experienced members & the CAB on this one.

Where I work, pretty much anything over £200 can get taken to court, even less if it's a very clear-cut case (verified residency, not in dispute, debtor having no reasons not to pay).

ajaney

Just wanted to thank PeeKay32 for taking the time to post on here. It is interesting to see it from the 'other side'.