CSA rules when two children with two mothers

nic82

Hi,

I'm asking this on behalf of a family member (let's call him J).

J has a six year old (D) who lives with his mother, step-dad and a half brother. J also has another child (C) who is four years old. C lives with his maternal grandparents as his mother works away during the week and only comes back at weekends.

J was married to the mother of D and when they divorced, it was put into writing that J would pay £40 a week maintenence.

J was never married to the mother of C and all maintenence payments have been done informally, which consist of £20 a week going to C's mother. Not sure whether she passes any of this on to her C's grandparents but that's beside the point.

C's mother is asking for an increase in payments and if J won't give her what she's asking for, she's threatening to go to the CSA. She's asking for £40 a week.

J is definitely not against giving her the additional £20 a week, although it would make things tight financially for him. What he's concerned about is that C's mother can just keep coming back asking for more and more money and if he says no, she'll deny him access to C.

We've been looking on the internet and if both children were with the same mother, we know that J would be required to pay 15% of his wages if the arrangements were done through the CSA. He earns £250-£300 a week (net), so based on £300 net, the payment would be £60 a week for both children. However, we can't find out what the payment would be for two children who have different mothers.

J sees both children at least twice a week but they don't often stay over, so we know there wouldn't be a discount for that.

As I said, J isn't against paying the extra money for C but would like to know how much the CSA would "charge" him for the two children if C's mother did carry out her threat to go to the CSA.

If you've read all this, thank you

Loopy_Girl

As the arrangement with the first mother is a private arrangement then the CSA would not consider this child for their calculations and if second mother went to CSA then it would be 15% of his salary that he would need to pay to her.

If both mothers were with CSA then it would be 20% of his income split, but not neccesarily equal, between the 2 Mum's.

If you can possibly help it then get your 'friend' to try and keep CSA out of it but I agree that Mum 2 can't have you over a barrell. Work out how much 15% of the income is, see is that is more or less than the £40.00 a week she wants now and depending on the answer then call her bluff. Though I can actually see it from her point of view if 1 child is getting a figure and the other is getting half that but I'm sure there is a reason for it - just thought I would maybe play Devil's Advocat!!!

kelloggs36

If there are 2 children, then it would be split 10% each.

nic82

Hi LG,

Thank you for replying and thank you for all your help, it does make things a lot clearer.

I've spoken to J this morning and it all makes sense to him too. The only question he has now is how do the payments work when he does overtime? He gets paid weekly and, although has a basic salary (which is about £250 a week net), he sometimes does overtime which puts him up to £300 a week net, occasionally more.

If they did end up going down the CSA route, do they take 15% of his wages regardless of what he earns? We're presuming they do, but just wanted to find out for sure.

Yep, there is a reason . J agreed to leave C's mum the house and pretty much all the contents and not ever make a claim on the equity or anything else now or after C has left home/full time education. She lives rent and bills free with her job in the week (and with her parents at the weekend) so is renting out the house and getting a decent extra income from that (more than the mortgage payments), so they agreed that £20 a week for C was fair. I'm not sure if the way they arranged things was the best way or the right way but that's how they did it. They also didn't put anything in writing, which was not a good idea!

J is now in the process of removing his name from the mortgage of the house (didn't do this when they split up, which I also think was a mistake!) as he's buying somewhere new. I think there is probably a bit of jealousy going on as C's mum hasn't got a new partner and she's now saying she can't afford her part of the solicitor's fees to remove J from the mortgage. She said that if J doesn't pay them then he won't be able to get his name removed and also won't be able to get a new mortgage in his name. Because he wants to move on, he's agreed to pay them (which means he needs to do lots of overtime over the next couple of months) and now she's asking for the increased maintenence payments.

If he get get everything sorted once and for all, he will pay £40 a week but just doesn't want to agree to it and then C's mum come back to him asking for money over and over again.

I guess the best thing would be to do it all through a solicitor and get it written down, and signed by J and C's mum, that £40 is the weekly payment and C's mum can't come back asking for more. Would that work?

Crikey, after reading this all back, it sounds like an episode of Jerry Springer!!

nic82

kelloggs36 wrote: »

If there are 2 children, then it would be split 10% each.

Hi kelloggs,

I took so long in writing my reply that you'd posted your reply whilst I was writing mine! Is this still the case if the eldest child's payments have been agreed privately as part of the divorce settlement? LG's post says that the eldest child's payment wouldn't be taken into consideration?

Loopy_Girl

kelloggs36 wrote: »

If there are 2 children, then it would be split 10% each.

Ahhh...I thought it may be different if the PWC's applied at different time. Mind you, that would only come into play if there was arrears (different amounts I mean)..am I right in thinking?

OP...only 15% of the salary would be taken if only one Mum applies. If the 2 Mum's apply then the 20% would come into effect. CSA are not concerned with any private outgoing, if a claim is made for a child then the relevant percentage is taken (in this case 15% as only 1 Mum is applying...god I hope this is making sense to you!!)

With regards to the fluctuating wage, when the ex would apply the CSA would ask for payslips. Am not entirely sure how many - maybe someone else could clarify - and the average wage is calculated from that. Lets just say for example they ask for 5 and all 5 have a wage of £300.00 per week. They would then assume your normal wage is that. If all 5 said £250.00 then the normal wage would be that. The assessment would then be done and that would be what would need to be paid regardless of any overtime etc. You are under no obligation to tell the CSA that you are earning more after an assessment has been done although if the PWC requests a reassessment (if she thinks you are earning more for example) then you would have to prove your wage and a new reassesment would be done.

Am hoping this is not as clear as mud for you!!!!!!!

blaise802001

Hi sorry to hijack the thread, but my question is very similar. My husband and I are splitting up and have 4 children, he has 2 to his ex-wife that he pays £180 a month to the CSA for. How will the CSA work out how much he has to pay each of us each month if I were to go down that route? I know that he gets some sort of discount for having 3+ children living at home, and obviously that will stop when we move out. So if his net income a month is approx £1230 how much could I roughly expect to get, bearing in mind he has 2 other children to a different mother? Should also add that I'm hoping to go down the private maintenance agreement route, as CSA caused nothing but problems for my husband, so am going to try to avoid them like the plague lol

Thanks

kelloggs36

If PWC 1 makes a claim before PWC2, PWC 1 will get 15%. If there are arrears, NRP will pay normal 15% plus some for arrears. PWC 2 puts in a claim, normal maintenance payments change for PWC 1 and reduces to 10% of normal earnings plus arrears, and PWC2 gets the other 10% and no arrears (unless they have built up, but again, these will be over and above the normal % maintenance).

If one is a private agreement, then no account is made when calculating maintenance, so he may pay PWC 1 who has not claimed let's say £40 per week, but that £40 per week will still be included in his weekly income when calculating the 15% he should pay to PWC2.

In respect of overtime, it will be averaged out unless it only happens rarely, in which case it will be ignored.

kelloggs36

blaise802001 wrote: »

Hi sorry to hijack the thread, but my question is very similar. My husband and I are splitting up and have 4 children, he has 2 to his ex-wife that he pays £180 a month to the CSA for. How will the CSA work out how much he has to pay each of us each month if I were to go down that route? I know that he gets some sort of discount for having 3+ children living at home, and obviously that will stop when we move out. So if his net income a month is approx £1230 how much could I roughly expect to get, bearing in mind he has 2 other children to a different mother? Should also add that I'm hoping to go down the private maintenance agreement route, as CSA caused nothing but problems for my husband, so am going to try to avoid them like the plague lol

Thanks

Assuming he is on CS2 (ie the case was opened after March 2003) then he would pay a flat 25% of his net income in maintenance. As you have 4 children and his ex has 2, it will be split 4/6 (3/4) to you and 2/6 (1/4) to her. On a salary of £1230 per month, total payments would be £307 per month. so you would get £230 per month and his other ex the rest.

blaise802001

kelloggs36 wrote: »

Assuming he is on CS2 (ie the case was opened after March 2003) then he would pay a flat 25% of his net income in maintenance. As you have 4 children and his ex has 2, it will be split 4/6 (3/4) to you and 2/6 (1/4) to her. On a salary of £1230 per month, total payments would be £307 per month. so you would get £230 per month and his other ex the rest.

Hi kelloggs..thanks very much for this, it was exactly what I needed to know

ETA sorry but regarding the 4/6, 2/6 etc, wouldn't this be equated to 2/3, 1/3 rather than 3/4 and 1/4 or does it work differently?? Sorry about all this lol

kelloggs36

Sorry, my maths is out lol. Max he pays is 25% of net income which is £307 and you are quite right you get 2/3 of that and she gets 1/3. Must learn to break my fractions down better lol. Therefore you get £204 and she gets the rest.