Mortgage mis-sold??

mac_saver

Hi need some advice ASAP, just over 2 years ago was sold a Mortgage with SPML through a broker on an interest only basis on the proviso he would return after the 2 year fixed rate deal ended to get us a better deal on a repayment basis. The mortgage was a self cert light adverse tied in to the LIBOR rate which I have only just discovered is not the same as the BOE base rate. At the time we were told it was the best deal available to us but now, because the fixed deal has ended, and the broker no longer deals in mortgages of this type, we have shopped around and have been told we should have never have been offered this deal in the first place! Our new monthly rate has jumped £400 and basically because of a ccj we cannot do anything in the current climate. We have just complained to the company concerned and they are "looking into it" but what can we realistcally expect? Can we prove anything to the FOS what would we need to do to prove our case? Any advice would be great.

_Andy_

Hi

Firstly on what basis do you think it was mis-sold (I'm not saying it wasn't by the way). I.e why has whoever told you it shouldn't have been offered to you said so?

Re the monthly payment going up, there would have been an illustration on the key fact illustration and offer letter.

arkie

when did you get the ccj? in the last 2 years
why did you self cert? are you aware you could have commited mortgage fraud
did you have undeclared earnings? are you aware that you may have commited tax evasion
remember you signed the application form and an income box and the mortgage offer accepting the terms and conditions ( including income stated) and your solicitor will have confirmed with you that you understood what you were signing.

mac_saver

Hi thanks for looking, 2 other independant brokers have looked at the details and have said that at the time it was not the best deal available to us and the fees are extremely high (About 4k) so the company were not offering us the best deal or acting in OUR best interests. Also the LIBOR rate was not explained to us at all and we had no idea it was any different to the base rates we all know about, no proof was ever sought of incomes even though it was self cert. Yes an illustration of possible increases was shown and that showed a possible increase of £150/month. The whole deal went through very quickly before we could think really but we needed to act when we did and felt pressurised by the broker. We have been told by 1 broker if it was him he would have grave concerns if it was him we were chasing!
CCJ was taken out last year.

Toughluck

What loan size is it and what is the value of the property?
What is the CCJ size? Are you employed or self employed? What are your earnings that you can prove?

As Andy said it may be you were not mis-sold and it was the best product for you at that time. SPML did have some good rates in the past on low-ish loan to vlaue and on a self cert basis.

mac_saver

arkie wrote: »

when did you get the ccj? in the last 2 years
why did you self cert? are you aware you could have commited mortgage fraud
did you have undeclared earnings? are you aware that you may have commited tax evasion
remember you signed the application form and an income box and the mortgage offer accepting the terms and conditions ( including income stated) and your solicitor will have confirmed with you that you understood what you were signing.

Hi
Had to go self cert as a lot of my income is dependent on the vast amount of overtime that I do and my wifes online work and the income multiples did not quite add up, all incomes declared so no fraud involved.

mac_saver

Toughluck wrote: »

What loan size is it and what is the value of the property?
What is the CCJ size? Are you employed or self employed? What are your earnings that you can prove?

As Andy said it may be you were not mis-sold and it was the best product for you at that time. SPML did have some good rates in the past on low-ish loan to vlaue and on a self cert basis.

Hi

Loan is for £179k property value £195 to £200k, CCJ is for about £5k, employed full time no risk of redundancy Basic earnings about £32k + o/t and bonuses.
Never heard of the LIBOR rate until recently surely this alone should have been fully explained.

dunstonh

High fees do not make a mis-sale. If two window cleaners come to your house and one says he will do the windows for £5 and the other £20 and you choose the £20 one then that is your choice. As long as the fees are disclosed in advance to you being committed to them then no rule breach has taken place.

Also the LIBOR rate was not explained to us at all and we had no idea it was any different to the base rates we all know about

Again, not a mis-sale. As long as the terms of the mortgage were told to you then the mechanics of how it works behind the scenes are not necessary. It wouldnt do any harm to know but a good majority of the public would just switch off and not take it in.

no proof was ever sought of incomes even though it was self cert.

Not a mis-sale. That was the whole point of self cert.

Yes an illustration of possible increases was shown and that showed a possible increase of £150/month.

That is compliant. Example higher rate figures being shown is the right thing to do. Like any example rate, it is only going to show one figure and that figure could be lower or higher than you actually see. However, there should be a risk warning attached that saying more or less that it is just an example.

The whole deal went through very quickly before we could think really but we needed to act when we did and felt pressurised by the broker.

You would have had about 4 weeks to many months potentially. Saying you didnt have time is going to be hard for you to justify. How much time does it take to read about 4-8 pages of quite simple information? (the mortgage KFI is one of the best things the FSA has done - it gives you all the key data in an easy to read document).

We have been told by 1 broker if it was him he would have grave concerns if it was him we were chasing!

He has obviously seen more than you have posted here. What else is there as at the moment there is nothing to indicate a mis-sale.

mac_saver

dunstonh wrote: »

High fees do not make a mis-sale. If two window cleaners come to your house and one says he will do the windows for £5 and the other £20 and you choose the £20 one then that is your choice. As long as the fees are disclosed in advance to you being committed to them then no rule breach has taken place.



Again, not a mis-sale. As long as the terms of the mortgage were told to you then the mechanics of how it works behind the scenes are not necessary. It wouldnt do any harm to know but a good majority of the public would just switch off and not take it in.



Not a mis-sale. That was the whole point of self cert.



That is compliant. Example higher rate figures being shown is the right thing to do. Like any example rate, it is only going to show one figure and that figure could be lower or higher than you actually see. However, there should be a risk warning attached that saying more or less that it is just an example.



You would have had about 4 weeks to many months potentially. Saying you didnt have time is going to be hard for you to justify. How much time does it take to read about 4-8 pages of quite simple information? (the mortgage KFI is one of the best things the FSA has done - it gives you all the key data in an easy to read document).



He has obviously seen more than you have posted here. What else is there as at the moment there is nothing to indicate a mis-sale.

Hi
Yes there is more than I have put on here, or can put on here, he looked at the application and our finances at the time, and compared them to what else was on offer and believes the advice given was "inappropiate for our needs" and he was concerned, unlike you, that the LIBOR was not fully explained as it should be. I am not well versed in these matters so I am totally dependent on people who do know like yourself what to do for the best.

happybroker

Whilst it's good practice to explain the difference between LIBOR and Base it's not a regulatory requirement is what Dunstonh meant I think, so on it's own wouldn't be grounds for a complaint.

If there is information that you can't post on here, even though we have no clue as to who you are or who the adviser was, we won't be able to answer the question posed in your OP of what if anything you can expect to happen as a result of your complaint unfortunately.

I'm not suggesting that this is the case but I have heard of advisers slating a previous sale to get the client on side, it's an old tactic but does appear to work.

mac_saver

happybroker wrote: »

Whilst it's good practice to explain the difference between LIBOR and Base it's not a regulatory requirement is what Dunstonh meant I think, so on it's own wouldn't be grounds for a complaint.

If there is information that you can't post on here, even though we have no clue as to who you are or who the adviser was, we won't be able to answer the question posed in your OP of what if anything you can expect to happen as a result of your complaint unfortunately.

I'm not suggesting that this is the case but I have heard of advisers slating a previous sale to get the client on side, it's an old tactic but does appear to work.

Hi

The advisor is not after a sale as he has already told us that he cant help because of the CCJ. As to the full information I cannot post, its because all the case notes of the rep who advised us and offer paperwork I have passed on to friend who is a financial advisor for his opinion so I dont have them to hand so I have just posted what I can.
I did not think that a high fee justified a mis-sell in my earlier post, I was advised it was very high for the product and could be becaude the broker had a "tie in" with SPML at that time.
Thanks for all the advice.:T