Why can no one be positive on this forum.

justpurchased

!!!!!!? wrote: »

The only real worry at the moment is of a bank bust destroying my savings, a large proportion of which are held abroad. I may well diversify some of those into gold to hedge against inflation. The sterling part will be transferred shortly into NS&I tax-free certs since I've figured out that this year I'll be in the 40% tax band, wiping out those nice 6%+ interest rates I'm getting on my pounds.

Good honest post, so I would say you do carry some of the same fears as home owners do on your assests just that they can see there asset/colateral devaluing monthly. you just dont know with the banks.
But personaly i would leave gold i still think it will fall (it will have shot up to over $1000g after this). but in the current climate it is very hard to pick anything that will beat inflation. Hang on frozen food:D

tr3mor

justpurchased wrote: »

Well that depends on affordabillity also "there is always some one better of than yourself" Unfortunatly.

It doesn't depend on anything.

Also, thanks for stating the bleedin' obvious.

:money:

justpurchased

tr3mor wrote: »

It doesn't depend on anything.


:money:

Well it does, if you cant afford a house e.g. a big enough deposit and a suitable mortgage you can not buy a house.
Unfortunatly some people will not be able to match other peoples circumstances (spending power). This is not a dig at you as i do not know your circumstances, just that £20K may never be enough as a deposit now or in a few years time.

obsessed_saver

moggylover wrote:

When I first bought in the early 80's, I could not have dreamt of buying a HOUSE! It was a flat first, and a grotty one not a fancy one, which I had to spend a lot of time and effort on (and as little money as possible) in order to make nice and increase my profits on.

I will just reply to your post with this quote:

justpurchased wrote: »

Well that depends on affordabillity also "there is always some one better of than yourself" Unfortunatly.

obsessed_saver

tr3mor wrote: »

It doesn't depend on anything.

Also, thanks for stating the bleedin' obvious.

:money:

It's a great quote. You can use it in lots of situations (see my post above).

moggylover

lostinrates wrote: »

I'm starting to see a few places we could buy now with an under 50% mortage.


I'd be on a second or third house had I bought a few years ago. But life meant we travelled for work etc. I could buy a one bed flat...but it would not be appropriate now we are starting a family. Before people started hopping up the ladder they bought once or twice (DH was born in his mother's forst home which was only sold after her death)

I'd love a fixer upper. I have highly individual taste, plan to stay a while in anything I buy (rather than hopping up a ladder) and so see my decor as a choice not an improvment to my investment. Unfortunately all the fixer uppers seem to be gone or priced more expensively (works budgeted for) for the uick hobby developer market (I had a long chat with the head of a prestige agency about this during the boom and he admitted this was so and they love fixer uppers to price). I RESENT paying for other people's poor finishes sold as a finished 'product in fact'




where are these houses? I'd like one! And the second point about the money to be made....hmm, FTBs are greedy are they? No, people just want their mney to work for them, whereever in the chsin they sit.


So do I;)


But we ARE now half way up! DH is in the top tax bracket, we need to think about having kids, starting in a one bed flat would be ridiculous for a lot of FTBs ho are in early thirties late twenties, not fresh out of school in a first job. IMO the ladder view as PUSHED those prices up more than 'necessary'. I agree buy what you need and can afford.

Well, I wish I had been able to have a home on only a 50% mortgage when I started out. Even with having done 2 jobs and with a lot of saving under my belt I had to be satisfied with a flat on a 90% mortgage. I was 24, and certainly not in my first job. My Aunt and Uncle (going back a generation) were fortunate enough to be able to buy their first home (this would have been around 50 years ago) and that was a flat - after which they managed to buy the house they still live in - but my uncle was self-employed as a roofer, but did a milk round before his own job in order to make sure that the bills were paid whilst he built up his business to make a better future.

I am fortunate, I have not only my own house with no mortgage as of recently, but also the one my mother left me when I lost her. I do not begrudge the prices coming down - and am well aware that the same will happen for those above me and that I will probably still be able to afford the bigger house that we need (currently only in two bedroomed and kids now old enough to need to have some space).

What I repeatedly keep trying to get across to people is that we all wanted much LESS from our homes in the 70/80 and yet it was still equally difficult to afford to buy them. For myself it meant 2 jobs, a lodger, and a life of learning to do all sorts of repairs and decorating for myself.

I fully appreciate that there are a few people who will be first time buyers that want to buy a doer upper - my experience down here (near Carmarthen in W. Wales) is that the majority do not want to know about these and seem to think they have the right to something better than previous generations started out with.

We also need to remember that the vast majority of people did not own their own home, nor even dream of doing so, even within my (admittedly long:o ) lifetime. 50 years ago the buying of houses was for those who were considered "well off" and not far from "middle class". We no longer have those clear boundaries of class these days: but as far as I am concerned many of those that want to buy a 3rd time buy from the offset should actually stop and compare their situation on a like to like basis. Had I been a bank manager in the 80's it would all have been a much easier exercise than it was - but I was just an ordinary working class girl who wanted a home of her own (and that alone was not easy as a lot of BS would not lend to single females:eek: ).

In my quest to do this - I put off (mistakenly really) having children until I was 35 (and then had a couple of miscarriages before I finally became a parent at 37) - because I did not feel I could bring kids into the World without a home that was at least reasonably secure.

When I first bought I had just about enough to pay all of my bills. Even with my lodger I did not have much left to eat on - and thus my second job remained far longer than I had envisaged. I worked 8.30 till 5.00 in one job, and 6.00 till 2.00 in the next. I do not believe that anyone should HAVE to do this - but I chose to then because it was for something I wanted desperately - and it probably says something very sad about my psychology that I needed it that badly.

As I said, I do not begrudge the amount that house prices must come down - I have absolutley NO sympathy for the BTL market (I don't even like the idea of renting one of the houses I currently have until the market stabilises as I do not approve of a system that allows some to own more than they need and others to not have a roof over their head except by putting money into the coffers of a landlord) and I do not approve of property developers either (or at least - not those that take the doer uppers out of the market and do it just to make money - buying land and building is slightly different).

However, I do get sick to death of those who want to make out that it was any easier at any time in the last 30 years (the length of time I have been in the property market) for any of the ordinary working people then. Maybe it was slightly for couples, but I knew many of those who had part-time jobs on top of their full time ones in order to make ends meet and to buy the materials necessary to actually do up their doer up.

I also get tired of the glee with which some of these people forget that not everyone who already owns their own place is a BTL'er or a fat cat - but that the majority of us are just ordinary people who have worked hard with the hope that one day they might, just might, end up with the right home for them - and now when they should have had the opportunity are struggling to move on in a market that is positively terrifying. As my 13 year old son joked the other day "mum - do you think I shall ever get to have my own bedroom before I get to uni:eek: ". I reassured him he would - whilst my stomach did hops of fright itself and I had to go off and cry at the lousy timing life has once again given me. Not proud of that - it's self-pity. But I do pick the most godawful times to sell - 1989 last time, and now!

I suspect also, that those that are most gleefull about the drop in prices at the moment - will also be those that if they do ever pluck up the b***s to go for it and buy a home, will be those that bleat hardest the next time that property values drop! Could be wrong - but life experience tells me I am not.

I do wish you well - and I hope your life goes to plan and you get the house you want at some stage - but spare a thought for those that have been trying for a long time to get to the house they actually need NOW and not in five or ten years time and understand that it is not the price drops that are so hard to take - but the fact that even if you try to keep ahead of those drops and make your home sensibly priced - you may be stuck just hoping for a fair few years yet. My own is currently priced at less than I had a proceeding offer for in 2005 (when my mother was taken ill and I had to pull out of my sale) there is very little interest - my mothers house is on for a price that it would have fetched in a matter of days in 2003! Lots of interest - but not from people able to proceed - and I had the unpleasant experience of one very young couple of first time buyers who told me outright they were only looking at present - they were waiting for another £50K to come off the local prices before they would consider spending:mad: - not until after they had looked around of course!

edited to add: and no - that wasn't cos they could not afford the current prices - they just wanted a really big place in beautiful condition from the word go!

lostinrates

moggylover wrote: »

Well, I wish I had been able to have a home on only a 50% mortgage when I started out.

We could, but we probably won't. We're not planning to move anytime soon, so we'll opt for maximum value for money and suitabiltiy for a LONG time.;)

I was 24

We're 29 now, don't expect to buy before we are thirty. have had several jobs!

What I repeatedly keep trying to get across to people is that we all wanted much LESS from our homes in the 70/80 and yet it was still equally difficult to afford to buy them. For myself it meant 2 jobs, a lodger, and a life of learning to do all sorts of repairs and decorating for myself.

But this is NOT an experience for EVERYBODY! My parents bought the house I was bought into (so about the same time you bought) for less than 3.5 times my father's (average) salary in 1979. It was a HUGE house in West London. My DH earns, comparitive to my father then, MORE, and can't buy one of the flats in that house for 3.5 times his salary. Your experience is not universal, neither is my parents...your experience proves that. We will get LESS than my parents did paying MORE. My eternal quest here is to find out where the AVERAGE of these two extreme experiences is, and so far I fail!

I fully appreciate that there are a few people who will be first time buyers that want to buy a doer upper - my experience down here (near Carmarthen in W. Wales) is that the majority do not want to know about these and seem to think they have the right to something better than previous generations started out with.

Intersting. How has employment changed in your area over that time, what impact might that have had I wonder?

We also need to remember that the vast majority of people did not own their own home, nor even dream of doing so, even within my (admittedly long:o ) lifetime. 50 years ago the buying of houses was for those who were considered "well off" and not far from "middle class". We no longer have those clear boundaries of class these days:

I agree with this. I think this confusion with class and affordability has pushed a lot of people into over stretching themselves who might have been better renting forever, but thats a gut feeling and not based on any evidence. Those who sold at the right time of course prove quite the opposite lucky them!

but as far as I am concerned many of those that want to buy a 3rd time buy from the offset should actually stop and compare their situation on a like to like basis. Had I been a bank manager in the 80's it would all have been a much easier exercise than it was - but I was just an ordinary working class girl who wanted a home of her own (and that alone was not easy as a lot of BS would not lend to single females:eek: ).

That's exactly what I do! In our position we are significantly worse off than we would have been 30 years ago. Dramatically in fact.

However, I do get sick to death of those who want to make out that it was any easier at any time in the last 30 years (the length of time I have been in the property market) for any of the ordinary working people then. Maybe it was slightly for couples, but I knew many of those who had part-time jobs on top of their full time ones in order to make ends meet and to buy the materials necessary to actually do up their doer up.

Agian, you must understand then how I feel people suggesting that for couples like us its NOT harder now!

I also get tired of the glee with which some of these people .....

as one of 'these people' I agree, but I think some empathy from our side of the fence is called for too. I often see people accused of no sympathy where I think what they are feeling is relief. Personally I deplore any 'glee' in the misfortune of others, but breathe a sigh of relief that our pretty desperate nomadic existance is almost over!

I do wish you well - and I hope your life goes to plan and you get the house you want at some stage

Thank you, like wise!

but spare a thought for those that have been trying for a long time to get to the house they actually need NOW and not in five or ten years time

this leaves me a bit standing, from this I think you have understood we don't need with the same imperitive, a house now? Like many pot FTBs I live with my family. I'm married. My DH lives here, in one room, at weekends, and lodges in London through the week. We have moved over 13 times in five years, keeping prices down, making moves we didn't want to make. We make sacrifices too, and of course we'd rather own. Its by making sacrifices in our position, as you have in yours, we have kept our heads above water and now have a nest egg.

May I add how nice it is to discuss opposing views with a calm, reasonable and polite person

neverdespairgirl

moggylover wrote: »

TBH - what we also need is to see first time buyers becoming less greedy in what they want to buy first time! I have had first time buyers coming to see houses that for most of us older house owners were third or fourth time buys - not what you started on the ladder with!

When the bulk of the first time buyers start recognising that you climb a ladder one step at a time, and not from half way up in the first place - instead of being jealous of those that have worked their way up from the dumps to the beautiful - THEN I personally will have a little more sympathy for them.

Why is there this rule that you "should" buy a tiny place, then buy and sell several times?

OH and I have never bought a place. When we do, it'll be a 4 bed place in central London, that we want to live in for a long time. Why not do that?

My parents bought their first place together when they married, a 2 bed, 2 reception maisonette in Blackheath.

obsessed_saver

moggylover wrote: »

When I first bought I had just about enough to pay all of my bills. Even with my lodger I did not have much left to eat on - and thus my second job remained far longer than I had envisaged. I worked 8.30 till 5.00 in one job, and 6.00 till 2.00 in the next. I do not believe that anyone should HAVE to do this - but I chose to then because it was for something I wanted desperately - and it probably says something very sad about my psychology that I needed it that badly.

Yes. That was your choice. You've decided to buy a house, and work hard for it, and now is enjoying the result of your hardwork. Good for you.

In my case, I have decided NOT to buy because:

1) rent is cheaper than mortgage interest
2) less burden and stress of losing the home if we can't upkeep the mortgage for some unforeseen circumstances
3) less bills to pay than owning a home

Meanwhile (until end of 2007), house prices are going up, rent stayed pretty much level, so I save even more money by not buying.

Now, house prices are going down (and I'll point out it's not my doing), I've saved up all this money, and when it makes sense to buy, I will.

So, hopefully, I would not have to experience all the hardship you have gone through. Does that make me less worthy of owning my home? Does that make me less honest a person?

Edit: Sorry, finger trouble and posted that before I was finished!

The point I was trying to make was - everyone's circumstances is different, and there is not right or wrong.

There's the fact - house prices increased until end of 2007, now it's going down.

The rest are just opinions, whether you buy now, or next year, sell now, or in 3 years time. It's all up to you and your circumstances.

I have to disagree with moggylover that first time buyers have to "start" at the "bottom" of the ladder. Being first time buyers means they can start anywhere. Be it at the "top" of the ladder, or at the "middle", or at the "bottom".

justpurchased

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

Why is there this rule that you "should" buy a tiny place, then buy and sell several times?

OH and I have never bought a place. When we do, it'll be a 4 bed place in central London, that we want to live in for a long time. Why not do that?

My parents bought their first place together when they married, a 2 bed, 2 reception maisonette in Blackheath.

I think it comes from trading up. As property as increased in price and peoples wages they have traded up. So I think it was quicker to get on the property ladder earlier.