please help ccj and charge on property threat

jj3678

Back in October 2007, I received two separate letters from Phoenix Recoveries informing me that a company called Largo had taken over my debts from HSBC Bank / DG Solicitors. They requested that I pay the full amount immediately totalling £4843.65
(two separate debts of £2938.37 & £1905.28) which was not an option for me, or contact them to make an agreement on payment terms.
I responded to this by sending a letter at the beginning of November requesting an income / expenditure form. So I could start a payments scheme with them.
On 20th November I then received a letter telling me I had failed to respond? But they had attached a proposal form for me anyway to fill in which I did and returned it to them.
I did not hear anything from them for 6 months (naively I was relieved as my financial situation was very limited during this period due to my work situation – being a self employed musician the first few months of the year are always the worst for income)
It was not until 26th May 2008 that I received another two letters stating my outstanding balance was £1860.28 & £2863.37 – which equated to £4723.65.
Once again they requested me to fill this form in and return it. I did so along with an attached letter containing the amount I owed which to my knowledge was approx. £4723 and offered to pay them a total of £30 per month.

I rang Largo and spoke to a very unpleasant gentleman about my debt. He told me if I did not pay the amount in full immediately they would be filing for bankruptcy against me. He was very unsympathetic with my financial situation and I found his telephone manor to be very intimidating.

On June the 6th I received a letter quoting
‘As we have been unable to reach an amicable solution to resolve your liability’
I wasn’t given any options from him apart from pay the full amount? To me that isn’t amicable, quote from the dictionary of the word amicable -
adjective
characterized by or showing goodwill; friendly; peaceable: an amicable settlement.


The letter then told me a Statutory demand had been placed on me with an extra charge of £150 and that Phoenix Recoveries were seeking an order for bankruptcy.
The letter suggested I speak to the gentleman again to resolve this matter which I did.
He basically laughed in my face at the offer I had made (£30 per month) telling me it would take years and years to clear the debt.
In my past experience with these matters a review is made every six months to see if an increase is possible in the payment but he never even mentioned this.

On 1st July 2008 I received another letter stating that they had decided to seek a judgement to register a charge against my property and would consider monthly payments in due course.
I panicked at this and called them immediately. I spoke to a lady this time whom seemed much more pleasant and she told me not to worry, this was just a formality which put my mind at rest. I realise now that this was very naive of me as it wasn’t until 18th August (post date 15th August) when I received the claim form pack from the county court dated 11th August that I realise they are planning to give me a CCJ and a charge against my property.

I have made large financial mistakes in the past and have had a CCJ for the past four years with Nat West paying them £50 per month.
My debts were in excess of £25000 5 years ago. I have had to remortgaged my home to clear a lot of it and have stuck to payment offers for years.
At one point I had over ten different creditors but have managed to clear most of them.
These debts which unfortunately are now owned by Phoenix/Largo were paid constantly for the past four years to DG Solicitors and were always paid on time.

It is so upsetting for me to think that in two years time I would be clear of my CCJ and now it’s heartbreaking to think that I am back to square one because of Phoenix/Largo whom I feel are being unfair as nothing was sent to me letting me know that a monthly payment of £30 was unacceptable even after I sent them my income and expenditure form.
Even if they sent me an unrealistic monthly amount of say £200, at least then I would agree with the word ‘amicable’

I have just sent my Acknowledgment of Service to Largo Law / Legal and Receivables which gives me up until 8th September to respond.
I am now wondering what my best option is?

Do I just except the CCJ and Charge on my property? Admitting the full amount including the interest and costs charged (totals £5345.05)

Should I write to them requesting not to go ahead with the order and pay them say £150 per month which would mean the debt would be clear in approx 3 years time.

Should I make them an offer of say 70% of the debt which would equate to £3700 and give me a month to pay it.

Please could you advise me of my best path to try and prevent this from happening.

I have copies of all the letters I sent and also of the ones which I received from them.

I just dont know what my best move is now.

Please help, I'm desperate
Regards jj

moneyworries_3

Phoenix Recoveries are basically a Dutch organisation who buy up small to medium sized debts en masse. They then employ various debt collectors to collect the debt on their behalf.

I am currently fighting with one of their collection firms called Marlin who did exactly the same thing which you are facing. I am in a DMP with Payplan though as I owe about £80k of debt.

I read on the internet that Phoenix and their agencies are useless when it comes to having paperwork in order and use scare tactics like this to make a quick buck. They seem to be getting the CCJ's done through the automatic court system who don't seem to ask for all the paperwork so if you don't contest or defend it then chances are you'll end up with them securing a debt that they probably had no legal right to enforce in the first place. You're not actually questioning that you owe the debt - just asking them to prove that they personally can legally enforce the debt through the court. It's not 100% guaranteed but worth a go

I am certain that someone who knows the legalities on this will come along to enlighten you fully but basically you need to take steps to ensure that Largo/Phoenix can LEGALLY enforce the debt which they have bought - don't ring them under any circumstances, keep everything in writing but don't use your real signature.

- Find the CCA letter template and send it to them - you can read up on that on here. They are unlikely to send anything so wait for the 12+2 days and then tell them the account is formally in dispute and that you will continue to withold payment
- If it's already gone further then there is a civil rights procedure letter detailed on here somewhere which basically means you defend the CCJ by saying that you acknowledge no debt to them - I am not an expert on that but someone may come along
- They cannot pursue legal action whilst you are in dispute as until they send proof that they can enforce the debt, they cannot take you to court. If you already have received the CCJ claim this may get a bit sticky but I believe you can use this argument to defend the claim or at least get it put aside for a time
- When they cannot get their paperwork in order they will pass the debt to another collection firm and the cycle will start again.

Send postal orders not cheques when you send the £1 CCA fee....hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will be along soon. Marlin got nowhere with anything legal as they had no paperwork and hence could not LEGALLY enforce the debt. They have now passed my debt to a company called Potomac whom I CCA'd today...Good Luck

jj3678

Thank's ever so much for taking the time out and responding. I feel so much more positive now.
Phoenix have got a fight on their hands!!!!!
I'll keep you posted.
Your a star.xxx

babygirl007

Hi all

PLEASE DO NOT hand over any monies or your signatures without going to court first under comsumer credit act 1974 they have got to produce a true signed copy of the original agreement,to prove they are the legal owners of the debt. This is advise given by the cccs. it does not matter if you still have your original copy you do not have to tell them you have it. It is for them to prove that they own your debt. This is the only documentation the court will accept as proof. A scanned copy of the agreement will usually have recent dates printed on them and folder names, your true would not have this. Therefore a scanned copy is not a true copy and therefore and will not be upheld in a court of law. Further trading standards have told me that they are extremly intrested in people who have dealings with these companies. Watch out for marlin letter signed with the same names as people at the HSBC and legal and recievables appear to be signing hsbc paperwork. Finally note the logo on the hasc paperwork with accompanies these letters do not match hsbc logos.

babygirl007

Hi all

PLEASE DO NOT hand over any monies or your signatures without going to court first under comsumer credit act 1974 they have got to produce a true signed copy of the original agreement,to prove they are the legal owners of the debt. This is advise given by the cccs. it does not matter if you still have your original copy you do not have to tell them you have it. It is for them to prove that they own your debt. This is the only documentation the court will accept as proof. A scanned copy of the agreement will usually have recent dates printed on them and folder names, your true would not have this. Therefore a scanned copy is not a true copy and therefore and will not be upheld in a court of law. Further trading standards have told me that they are extremly intrested in people who have dealings with these companies. Watch out for marlin letter signed with the same names as people at the HSBC and legal and recievables appear to be signing hsbc paperwork. Finally note the logo on the hasc paperwork with accompanies these letters do not match hsbc logos.

thetoff_2

hi,
I am new to this forum and hope you can help.
I too have received a county court pack from phoenix and have contested this.
I have been paying £20.00 per month sinse last year and never defaulted.All of a sudden I get a letter from Marlin then the Court pack from Phoenix.
Is this some sort of scan, I have done some research and although they are claiming to be a lomited company, they are Not registerd at companies house.

Deep_In_Debt

What others have said about the CCA is correct but untfortunately courts and judges need to be reminded of it as they seem to be issuing rather a lot of CCJ's/CO's on unenforceable debts.

There is something going on at the moment whereby creditors can apply for a CO at the same time as a CCJ. However, this law has not yet been passed as far as I'm aware but courts seem to be acting upon it already. You need to make sure that courts are aware of this.