Advice please re commitial hearing!

Simba_25

Hiya, not sure if anyone here can help but....

My mum has come round in tears today saying she needs £500 (half of a council tax debt) byt tomorrow or the bailiff is coming back to take goods. The thing is my mum hasnt got anything in the house that is of value that she isnt still paying for. They are all from buy per view?? where she is still paying for them via a meter on the tv. Can they still take these items?? He has told her if he cant get things of value then she will be refered back to the judge and be sent to prision. This bailiff has apparently been coming round trying to get payment since last october! but this is the first i have heard about it. He has told her she will be sent down for 3 months then still have the debt to pay when she gets out.

Is there anything she can do to stop this? there is no way she can get the £500 she is in far too much debt......about £90k's worth!!

I have tried getting her to go to CAB but she wont cause she is too ashamed. So any advice is extreamly greatful!

Many thanks

jen_jen_2

the bailiff cant take anything that she doesnt own and the best thing is dont let them in (or be out) bailiffs cannot force their way into your mums home unless she has let them in before.

if the account gets passed back to the council they may send it to magistrates court for commital to be considered. it is highly unlikely your mum will go to prison, this is for the wont payers not the cant payers, however with 90K of debt and no way to pay it she will have to demonstrate she is trying to solve the problem - by going to CAB.

as ashamed as your mum may feel she will not be judged and will feel heaps better afterwards, you could go with her.

i also suggest she sit down and write all incomings and outgoings, all debts so she knows whats what. she may be entitled to benefits too, is she a pensioner, does she have a disability etc etc.

then she needs to prioritise, that is pay the essentials, rent/morgage, council tax including arrears, gas, electric etc. the credit cards or loans may have been getting most of your mums money because they shout loud for it but the important ones are the likes of the council tax.

skintchick

Can you explain what you mean by committal hearing? Has it become a criminal matter or, as I suspect, is this bailiff simply bamboozling her semi-legalistic nonsense to scare her?

If she has £90k debt then she needs help from the CAB and you have to get her to go - would she be less ashamed of ending up homeless or in prison?

Time to get firm with her I think.

Simba_25

Apparently it has already been to court and they have given the order to come remove goods....the man is coming with a van and the police tomorrow. Then is he cant get enough stuff he has to go back to the judge who will then order a commitial hearing for her to be sent to prision..... thats how she explained it to me from what the bailiff told her. I know nothing about how these things work tho so im not sure how accurate it is.

I have just rang cab for her and booked her in......she is going if she wants to or not lol The plan is a ood idea.....ill sit down with her tonight and do that.

thank you!

Simba_25

i just got the letter he gave her and it says its a ... notice to remove goods....magistrates liability order for unpaid council tx

jen_jen_2

the first court hearing is just to say your mum is the liable person for the bill, its a liability order hearing.

the council then enforce it with the bailiff.

if the bailiff has a walking possession order - a piece of paper that your mum has signed saying the bailiff has seized the goods but will leave them with her so she can pay him instead then he can take any goods that belong to her. again only the ones that belong to her. the bailiff can force entry at this stage. if nothing signed dont answer door.

if he doesnt collect enough to cover the debt he gives the account back to the council who decide (they are owed the money) if it goes to court for a commital hearing. some councils wont send for commital because they know the magistrates will write off the debt for cant payers.

options if bailiff due to come tommorow, ring the council, that is who your mum owes the money to, will they call off the bailiff and allow your mum time to go and get CAB advice, mum may need to offer payment in short term, £10 per week for example. explain she is old, distressed, disabled, anxious, sick (delete as appropriate) they may hold account for 2 weeks

try calling bailiff asking to hold off for 2 weeks you are relying on his good nature and from what hes told your mum about prison doesnt sound like he has one.

offer to pay £50 to bailiff (and lend your mum this if you can) this then gives you a breathing space to get more advice and assistance. your mum really needs help of CAB

Simba_25

Thank you! No she hasnt signed anything at all and hes never been in the house. He just said he was coming with the police and she wouldnt be able to stop him gaining access. I have got her an appointment with cab for tomorrow morning. She did try and offer the bailiff £100 as thats all she had but he wouldnt accept, said it had to be at least £500. He really isnt nice!

file_wizzard

Simba_25 wrote:

Apparently it has already been to court and they have given the order to come remove goods....the man is coming with a van and the police tomorrow. Then is he cant get enough stuff he has to go back to the judge who will then order a commitial hearing for her to be sent to prision.....

Utter Rubbish! , the court will of made a "liability order" which means the council will try to recover the moneys owed via a bailiff. this should be done with a "walking possession notice" , if they have not gained access to your mothers property they cant of legally completed this notice, and without it they cant recover any goods anyway.

Also your mum is under no legal obligation to even speak to the bailiff, let alone let them into her home , just to reiterate DO NOT LET THEM IN UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

if the bailiff cant recover the money they will return it to the council who will decide what to do next

i) write it off ( unlikely )
ii) ask for token payment
iii) send back to the court for committal order ( only ever used if you wilfully refuse to pay any amount whatsoever )

with regards to the man with the van Give him a nice wave! He wont have the police they will have no interest what so ever as this is a civil matter not a criminal one, the only time the police would ever get involved is if there was a breach of the peace ( i take it your mum is not about to take on 2 monkeys who probably cant even spell "police" let alone call them up ! )

I know it must be frightening, but she must stand her ground, she should just tell them ( through the letter box) that she has no intention of dealing with them but if they return it to the council she WILL speak to the council.

With regards to the forced entry, this is also a pathetic lie, the only bailiffs that can force entry ( without previously being admitted peaceful entry to the property) are crown bailiffs recovering H.M taxes, NOT court ballifs recovering other debts,

Bossyboots

This bailiff is trying to frighten your mum. While it is true that Magistrates CAN jail council tax defaulters, their guidelines are to not clog up the prisons with people who owe money, even to the council.

What is extremely important, is that you mum compiles a complete list of income and outgoings and which of the possessions in her property are actually hers.

Unfortunately where things might fall down is the level of debt. Can you find out from her how this accumulated. If she has lived a more than comfortable lifestyle and not paid her council tax then the Magistrates will be less sympathetic but if she has run up the debts by struggling to get by then that will help.

If she can show remorse for not paying the council tax and show how poorly off she is, she should be okay.

What you need to remember, is that just because they apply for a committal hearing doesn't mean the Magistrates have to send her to prison.

Have you checked whether she is receiving any/all benefits she might be entitled to?

jen_jen_2

very much doubt he will turn up with the police! if nothing signed and hes never gained entry he cannot force entry, tell your mum to come to yours - its easier to be out than ignore it and go to CAB, she needs to make sure all windows and doors closed/locked

spend this afternoon doing an income and exenditure.

good luck and tell your mum not to worry, the CAB wont be horrid to her.

skintchick

The only thing I know of called a committal hearing is a hearing at magistrates' court to commit a case to crown court for trial or sentence. This can only be done with specific types of case as set out in law.

If it is dealt with by the magistrates it is called a summary hearing.

So I'm a bit confused by what's going on with your mum - the CAB shoudl be abel to explain better.