Dismissal or Resignation

Savvy_Sue

His P45 will show his previous employer's details. However he could say he can't find it / has misplaced it / wasn't given one and ask for a P46.

Not that I'm suggesting he should say he has been self-employed! On the contrary, when the subject of whether to tell the truth on job applications has arisen before, the majority advice has always been not to lie. If you do, and get found out, the consequences can be very serious.

Although prospective employers expect the last employer to be given as a referee, you can avoid it as long as you can give a good reasons: at one stage I was living under the same roof as my ex-boss, so if I hadn't wanted to use him I would have explained why! (Before I'm accused of any wrong-doing, our relationship was never carnal, more businesslike than platonic even! And I knew he'd give me a truthful reference rather than a good one, IYKWIM.)

So your friend could put something in his covering letters to say that he isn't using his last employer because ... I don't know what he should say there, it's a bit late for my brain to think of honest but devious phrases. Alternatively he could check whether they would give a reference and if so what it would say. If their policy was only ever to confirm dates of employment then using them shouldn't be a problem unless he was in the disciplinary process.

In some ways it's a shame he didn't think to ask these questions before he resigned because you have a lot more bargaining power before you go if they're keen to get rid of you without the full dismissal procedure. But you live and learn.

BTW, I thought you might not be entitled to JSA for the first 13 weeks if you EITHER resigned OR were dismissed, but I'm no expert.

happyhero

Hi Savvy_Sue

Quote "If their policy was only ever to confirm dates of employment then using them shouldn't be a problem unless he was in the disciplinary process."

He was originally going down the disciplinary process route, because he did something wrong but doesn't that have NO relevance now considering that he resigned instead of getting dismissed. OR are you saying it is relevant still.

Incidently he did ask what they would say if asked for a reference and they said they would just give factual details, ie time he worked for them etc but they also said that if they were asked would they re-employ him, they would have to say no. So it would be scary for him going to them for a reference, it could go either way depending.

Also he is thinking of applying for a job through agencies and as you know they vet the prospective employees for the employer. The danger here is if the agency gets a bad response from the previous employer, that could lead to every job going out the window that, that agency could have offered, because they will have to pass the response on to prospective new employers.

Quote "BTW, I thought you might not be entitled to JSA for the first 13 weeks if you EITHER resigned OR were dismissed, but I'm no expert."

He has been told that this has changed now and he can get it straight away. hope he's got it right, he has a young family.

Savvy_Sue

happyhero wrote:

Quote "If their policy was only ever to confirm dates of employment then using them shouldn't be a problem unless he was in the disciplinary process."

He was originally going down the disciplinary process route, because he did something wrong but doesn't that have NO relevance now considering that he resigned instead of getting dismissed. OR are you saying it is relevant still.

Incidently he did ask what they would say if asked for a reference and they said they would just give factual details, ie time he worked for them etc but they also said that if they were asked would they re-employ him, they would have to say no. So it would be scary for him going to them for a reference, it could go either way depending.

If their policy is only ever to say something like "X was employed from this date to that date and it is our policy only to confirm dates of employment", then they shouldn't make an exception for him. BUT what they seem to be saying is that if asked a direct question like "Would you re-employ him?" they would answer it. Therefore the fact that disciplinary proceedings had started IS still relevant, because if asked a direct question like "Was any disciplinary action pending?" they would say "Yes".

A previous employer cannot lie in a reference. A request for references can be phrased in several different ways, from a 'please supply a reference for this person' to a standard questionnaire which could easily include either or both of the questions noted above. Given the risks then not using last employer would be best, it's just how your friend explains why not.

happyhero wrote:

Also he is thinking of applying for a job through agencies and as you know they vet the prospective employees for the employer. The danger here is if the agency gets a bad response from the previous employer, that could lead to every job going out the window that, that agency could have offered, because they will have to pass the response on to prospective new employers.

I think it might be worth him 'coming clean' to at least a certain extent with agencies, giving some explanation of why he doesn't want previous employer used for references. As I've said before, lying is NOT a good plan, far better to put the best possible spin on a situation. It's possible that agencies will be more open-minded than expected - they must get lots of people who have left 'under a cloud'.

And one other thought, honesty with the agency really is the best policy if he wants to avoid being placed somewhere where he might face strong temptation do the same thing again. Whatever it was. And however unlikely that might seem.

happyhero wrote:

Quote "BTW, I thought you might not be entitled to JSA for the first 13 weeks if you EITHER resigned OR were dismissed, but I'm no expert."

He has been told that this has changed now and he can get it straight away. hope he's got it right, he has a young family.

Well, I said I was no expert, and I understand the 'waiting time' does depend to a certain extent on your circumstances. So I hope he's got this right, and that he's able to recover from this experience!

Milarky

happyhero,

Just wondering if your friend had the option to spin out the employer for time, or if he went very quickly? Assuming he was salaried - and that his contract required him to give a month's notice - he would stand to recieve a month's pay. If the disciplinary route was followed he would only get paid up to the date of the dismissal [same day/next day?]. Aslo with accrued holiday pay, I think, employers always pay this up to date when resigning with notice, but do reserve the right claw back in the circumstances of a dismissal or only pay up to the dat of dismissal [or have I got that part wrong?]

Good for him if he can put this behind him, but I'm struck by the coincidence in the non-dismissal/resignation of the Secretary of State for 'work and pensons'. He get's a 'no fault' payment, I assume, of 18K. Now should we feel compassion or envy for him I wonder?