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The Wilsons - 875 buy to let property empire
Comments
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Assuming that at some stage the Wilsons go under, what will anyone do with this white elephant of a portfolio? Would anyone want to bid more than say £65 mill for it as a complete portfolio? This would leave the lenders with a really big hole in their finances. Even that low price would only give a rental yield of around 9%, which is low. That might be supplemented from selling some of the houses.
The properties can't all be offloaded into the current market. It took the Wilsons years to construct this monster, and it will take years to sell it off. I certainly wouldn't be interested in buying a bit of the portfolio with the risk that others would be offloading their bits into this market.
So, it looks like the lenders are going to become landlords all of a sudden. Faced with that, they might just leave the Wilsons to carry on.No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?0 -
Assuming that at some stage the Wilsons go under, what will anyone do with this white elephant of a portfolio? Would anyone want to bid more than say £65 mill for it as a complete portfolio? This would leave the lenders with a really big hole in their finances. Even that low price would only give a rental yield of around 9%, which is low. That might be supplemented from selling some of the houses.
The properties can't all be offloaded into the current market. It took the Wilsons years to construct this monster, and it will take years to sell it off. I certainly wouldn't be interested in buying a bit of the portfolio with the risk that others would be offloading their bits into this market.
So, it looks like the lenders are going to become landlords all of a sudden. Faced with that, they might just leave the Wilsons to carry on.
the properties will probably never even hit the market and will be moved - they will be picked up by other investors in lots of 5 or 10 properties at less than 'market value'. groups of investors may even get involved to get the finance.
it's funny that people think that FTB's will benefit from the Wilsons but most can't get finance anyway and there aren't many others that have the cash to buy a house. very few will be picked up by FTB's.
so those people that are happy that they're going bankrupt, unfortunately there won't be much in it for FTBs. it's a shame.
does anyone know exactly what the issue with their company is?0 -
the properties will probably never even hit the market and will be moved - they will be picked up by other investors in lots of 5 or 10 properties at less than 'market value'. groups of investors may even get involved to get the finance.
They are going to parcel 900 properties up into lots of 5 or 10? 180 separate lots of buyers!?No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?0 -
they will be picked up by other investors in lots of 5 or 10 properties at less than 'market value'. groups of investors may even get involved to get the finance.
it's funny that people think that FTB's will benefit from the Wilsons but most can't get finance anyway and there aren't many others that have the cash to buy a house. very few will be picked up by FTB's.
so those people that are happy that they're going bankrupt, unfortunately there won't be much in it for FTBs. it's a shame.
The same is true for many of your professional investors. So many of them are strapped in and over-extended for a ride down similar to the Wilsons. Even those not over-extended with see huge capital value loss due to the crash.
Reading SP and other places.. there seems to be increasing numbers asking for short-term loans, secured on one of their properties - or those landlords who are shocked they've been refused a mortgage for the first time.
I think you put too much expectation of hordes of cash rich BTLers ready to pounce.
Sure there are a few professional investors with cash, but not enough to prop up prices. Let them buy in at these levels.. or even down another 20%. They are doomed if they do.
More likely it will be like last time but much much worse - as this time banks have gone under so no re MEW-ing immediately after at 3 or 4 times distressed sale price on some nomark "professional valuation", there my be a backlash against future BTL-ers snapping up too many properties (via law or tax changes).
The Wilsons showed no mercy for all the victims of the last crash. They didn't go in privately and massively overpay for the same property they could get for a snip at auction or via underhand measures.
If anyone should have expected what is coming - it should have been the Wilsons. They saw the result first hand last time around... the carnage. Why did they assume it was different this time? I expect it will be their turn soon to be on the other end of it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-431224/How-maths-teachers-clocked-707-houses-240m-fortune.html"We virtually lived in the auction rooms," recalls Mrs Wilson. A tad recklessly, Mrs Wilson can't resist telling me about one scam her husband pulled in 1994.
After snapping up a four-storey house in South-East London at auction for £44,000, he noticed 'for sale' boards outside the property next door. So he called the estate agents to ask the price.
"It's £58,000," came the reply. Mr Wilson insisted that this was far too much, claiming he had bought the adjoining house for £30,000.
His bid was initially rejected, but a few days later, on Christmas Eve, the phone rang.
"If you've got £30,000, it's yours," the agent said.
The deliciously simple sting was concluded a few days later, when Mr Wilson had the house valued for mortgage purposes and it was deemed to be worth four times the amount he had paid: £120,000.0 -
We will not flood market vows millionaire landlord
PROPERTY magnates Fergus and Judith Wilson say Ashford homeowners need not worry about the market being flooded by homes when they sell their portfolio of properties.
The duo have revealed they intend to sell the bulk of their property empire due to the collapse in the housing market, and retire.
But the announcement had sent shockwaves in the local market that a flood of homes could drive the prices down even further.
Fergus Wilson moved to allay such fears however.
He told Yourashford: “We have a moral and social responsibility not just to sell everything and flood the market in one go.”
The Wilsons say they own around 200 two and three-bedroom houses in the Ashford area.
Mr Wilson said: “We had already decided back in March that we were going to start selling our properties.”
However, Mr Wilson said house prices had stagnated and it was unlikely they were going to see any increase so they had decided to sell their properties more quickly.
He said: “Prices of two and three-bedroom properties may go down by one or two per cent, but they will not be rising for at least two or three years. This is what has accelerated us selling.”
He said they were now trying to find a major investor to buy their portfolio and were looking for a pension company or investors from Russia or Bulgaria.
He said: “Something like a pension fund will take a 40-year view of the market. They want capital appreciation and a high volume of low hassle houses.”
According to Mr Wilson the credit crunch has put an end to new building.
“Government and councils cannot divorce themselves from consumer demand; people want houses these days. Even now two and three-bedroom homes in Ashford are going at the asking price, but they have not been selling in many numbers,” he said.
Mr Wilson added he was now exploring working on a TV programme offering people financial advice.
http://www.kentnews.co.uk/kent-news/We-will-not-flood-market-vows-millionaire-landlord-newsinkent17025.aspxpoppy100 -
Assuming that at some stage the Wilsons go under, what will anyone do with this white elephant of a portfolio? Would anyone want to bid more than say £65 mill for it as a complete portfolio? This would leave the lenders with a really big hole in their finances. Even that low price would only give a rental yield of around 9%, which is low. That might be supplemented from selling some of the houses.
The properties can't all be offloaded into the current market. It took the Wilsons years to construct this monster, and it will take years to sell it off. I certainly wouldn't be interested in buying a bit of the portfolio with the risk that others would be offloading their bits into this market.
So, it looks like the lenders are going to become landlords all of a sudden. Faced with that, they might just leave the Wilsons to carry on.
Yes they couldn't possibly try and sell all those properties in such a small area when the market is already dead, it would just totally destroy prices. They would have to run the rental business themselves as you say who is going to take off their hands
I haven't been following this thread, are the Wilsons doomed now? The lender(s) must be thinking hang on why should we wait until they can't pay, they may be looking for a moment to take the business over whilst it is still viable. Otherwise the Wilsons would be in danger of starting to neglect the properties and the tenants (although from the tv programme I saw a while ago they were treating their tenants disgracefully)0 -
Reading SP and other places.. there seems to be increasing numbers asking for short-term loans, secured on one of their properties - or those landlords who are shocked they've been refused a mortgage for the first time.
One SP LL was shocked to be refused a mortgage by 2 lenders as he already had 15 mortgages with them and had never been late or missed a payment. Another said that they had been refused a mortgage for the first time because she had too many checks on her credit file.
Now they will have to reply "yes" when asked if they have ever been refused a mortgage.RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
They are going to parcel 900 properties up into lots of 5 or 10? 180 separate lots of buyers!?
no but they could parcel up 100 into lots and solve the financial problem they may have.
that's why i asked what was the problem with their company, what is the finance amount that they need - we all know that they are over extended.0 -
We will not flood market vows millionaire landlord
He said they were now trying to find a major investor to buy their portfolio and were looking for a pension company or investors from Russia or Bulgaria.
He said: “Something like a pension fund will take a 40-year view of the market. They want capital appreciation and a high volume of low hassle houses.”
Mr Wilson added he was now exploring working on a TV programme offering people financial advice.
http://www.kentnews.co.uk/kent-news/We-will-not-flood-market-vows-millionaire-landlord-newsinkent17025.aspx
I can't see anyone or organisation willing to buy into a market that is falling so steeply unless the prices were seriously discounted by about 20% at least and only then if that produced very good yields as prices are likely to fall by more than 20% from this point in time0
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