ISA or Pension

isasmurf

Err... I thought I'd clicked on an ISAs v Pensions thread, not the dunstonh appreciation thread!

whiteflag_3

Hello Deemy , you wrote

theres no chance that your going to retire and find out all the friendly projections from your pensions advisor were complete BS, to rake home of the commission year on year...

Deemy can you explain....what is the difference between projections from pensions and projections from ISAs?.

Ive just run projections for both on exactly the same terms ( nil intial 0.5% fund based trail) in the same fund
why would the pension projection be complete BS as you say?

Heres the figures - £583.00 per month for 20 years

ISA (5%,7% and 9%) 195,000 , 241,000 , 301,000
Pension 277,000 , 347,000, 437,000

Of course the Pension figures dont include the benefit of any additional relief for higher rate tax payers!.

A projected fund @ 7% of 106k more for the pension must be worth considering as the opportunity cost of giving up "control"?

dunstonh

Blimey, go away for the weekend and look what I come back to...;)

The only problem with dunstonh is that he sometimes seems to confuse giving information and opinion with giving "advice" in the regulated sense, where very considerable care is required by whoever's giving it, lest the person later make a complaint he was mis-sold.

Giving information can be taken as advice by some people. Not everyone that posts on these forums has the understanding that you may have and may interpret your posts as advice.

But this is not a regulated forum, we are not selling any financial products here and none of us is giving "advice" in it's regulated sense..It's thus not necessary to hedge every single remark with back protection comments in compliance with regulatory rules, such that ordinary people can't understand what the hell you're talking about.

You dont have to sell products or give advice in a professional capacity. I have mentioned before that I was involved in a case regarding what can and cannot be said via the internet and that was on direct intervention from the FSA after someone wrote to them with a copy and paste of a thread. So, I apologise if acting in a compliant manner offends you but I prefer to keep on the right side of the FSA and having gone through the compliance issues regarding what is and isnt allowed, it is fair to say that you have crossed the line often.

I also think it should be pointed out that you criticise advisors for not giving the full information. Yet on here, you regulary criticise the IFAs that do give the full information. Make your mind up..

but I advise him not to worry about this, because he is not "at work" when he is posting on this website.

A copy and paste of a thread sent to the FSA and its as good as me saying it face to face with someone.

Indeed, a copy and paste of one of your threads where you give misinformation that could be interpreted as advice could land you in trouble as well. Just because you are not an industry professional, does not mean you can give advice with no come back.

If you do this, it defeats the whole purpose of the discussion.

Discussion is great. We all love a discussion here. But telling someone to cash in an endowment, even if you use the words, "I would cash it in" or telling someone to do a SIPP instead of a stakeholder is advice. Telling someone about a SIPP, what it can do and something they should look into is good discussion and desirable. Telling someone where to then buy a SIPP, then goes into advice.

not the dunstonh appreciation thread!

Or lack of appreciation as the case appears to be with some

EdInvestor

dunstonh wrote:

Giving information can be taken as advice by some people. Not everyone that posts on these forums has the understanding that you may have and may interpret your posts as advice.

So what? There are t and cs and disclaimers all over this site (including at the bottom of all your posts) saying that nothing here is official regulated "advice"."Advice" is what you get from a salesman or IFA, to whom you can make a misselling complaint if the "advice" turns out to be unsuitable and you make a loss.

It's quite obvious we don't give "advice" here because we don't do the required "fact finds" on individual's financial circumstances to find out if a product might be suitable.

I think everyone knows you can't make any misselling complaints to this website - not least because it's not selling anything :rolleyes:

In the same way, you can't make a misselling complaint to a newspaper - even though it may be full of information about whether such and such a product might be good or bad - because that's just information, not "advice".

A newspaper might publish an advertisement which was misleading - and that might be a matter for the FSA, but it would be the company that was selling the advertised product who got into trouble, not the newspaper.

A website like this comes under the law on publishing - so what needs to be watched out for is libel and defamation,and these days perhaps, incitement to racial or religious hatred , plus copyright matters. It's all mentioned up at the top of the page.

oceanblue_3

Edinvestor says.....[I think everyone knows you can't make any misselling complaints to this website - not least because it's not selling anything]

I think you still have a common duty of care to the people who may read your "advice".

Just because you feel you cannot be taken to court does not mean you should be anything other than fair. Sometimes you appear to be actuated more by controversy than by commonsense.

EdInvestor

Hello oceanblue

oceanblue wrote:

I think you still have a common duty of care to the people ....

Are you confusing me with an insurance company? The "duty of care" rule is the one which enables a person to lodge a successful misselling complaint even if the company sold the product before 1988. (Unfortunately it doesn't apply to IFAs.)

Of course we all try to get our facts and opinions as correctly expressed as we can when we post on this website.Mistakes can happen to the best of us at times.

But I think it's a mistake to behave as if the whole world is regulated by the FSA, although I can understand it may feel like that to a person who works in the financial services industry.

whiteflag_3

to behave as if the whole world is regulated by the FSA

Ed dont let the cat out of the bag , someone from the FSA might read this and go back and tell their colleagues that they dont regulate the whole world! And we wouldnt want to upset them even more

ps Ed -thought you might have commented on my projections post?

dunstonh

It's quite obvious we don't give "advice" here because we don't do the required "fact finds" on individual's financial circumstances to find out if a product might be suitable.

You cannot give advice without having authorisation. Putting disclaimers on your posts after giving advice saying that you cant give advice is not good enough. If anyone was to become financially worse off following your advice, they could report you to the FSA who could in instigate action against you even though you are not regulated by them.

I think everyone knows you can't make any misselling complaints to this website - not least because it's not selling anything

You dont have to sell the product to have a mis-sale. Its the advice that matters. (as one advisor found out when someone followed his advice, bought the product direct and then had a complaint come in because of the advice even though the product had not been purchased through the IFA).

In the same way, you can't make a misselling complaint to a newspaper - even though it may be full of information about whether such and such a product might be good or bad - because that's just information, not "advice".

Journalists have an exemption. Although they still have to have the information to be able to print what they do. You are not a journalist.

A website like this comes under the law on publishing - so what needs to be watched out for is libel and defamation

Not according to the FSA. All it takes is one thread containing advice to be sent to the FSA and Martin would get a nice letter from them (as I have said, I have been through this before when a thread was sent to the FSA).

But I think it's a mistake to behave as if the whole world is regulated by the FSA, although I can understand it may feel like that to a person who works in the financial services industry.

The FSA is the worlds biggest regulator. They do have an overbearing stance on these things and ought to loosen up a bit. However, if you start trying to give financial advice without authorisation or start making recommendations without authorisation, then they will take action against you, or if they cannot identify you directly, they will contact the owner of the site to take appropriate action.

whiteflag_3

Not according to the FSA. All it takes is one thread containing advice to be sent to the FSA and Martin would get a nice letter from them (as I have said, I have been through this before when a thread was sent to the FSA).

or if they cannot identify you directly, they will contact the owner of the site to take appropriate action.

Dunstonh are you serious? :eek:

deemy2004

Don't let DH spook the posters of these forums with scare stories of the FSA bogeyman

Anyone can discuss financial options as long as they don't pretend to be an financial advisor, and charge for the advice or recieve some financial benefit i.e. commission.

You can discuss whatever you like, SO NO MORE SPOOKING THE FORUMS ADVISOR DUDES !!